Deficient Gnome Window Frames

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Deficient Gnome Window Frames

gevisz
Usually, when I open a new window frame in Gnome 2, I have a Close, Maximize/Restore and Minimize buttons on its upper-right corner.

Sometimes, however, especially when I open a supplementary window frame from a running program, its upper (text) bar contains only the Close button with no possibility to maximize the window frame to the whole screen, and it is extremely inconvenient.

I do remember that I had a similar problem in Gnome 2 under Ubuntu but somehow managed to get to the configuration where almost all my windows had Maximize/Restore and Minimize buttons. The only exception was the Firefox sub-window to save a bookmark. :^(

Just now, I have tries FXCE and found out that it opens all the sub-windows with the Maximize/Restore, Close and Minimize buttons "out of the box" and without recompilation of all the programs that do not do the same in Gnome (except for the Firefox bookmark sub-window, of course).

However, I am reluctant to migrate to FXCE right now because at the moment I cannot achieve the same look-and-feel as in my Gnome (especially, I miss the the all-in-one clock-calendar-weather applet with the world map showing the daytime at different locations).

Could anybody advise me how to get the Close, Maximize/Restore and Minimize buttons in all window frames in Gnome 2.

Thank you.
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Re: Deficient Gnome Window Frames

Alan McKinnon-2
On 05/09/2013 14:51, gevisz wrote:

> Usually, when I open a new window frame in Gnome 2, I have a Close,
> Maximize/Restore and Minimize buttons on its upper-right corner.
>
> Sometimes, however, especially when I open a supplementary window frame
> from a running program, its upper (text) bar contains only the Close
> button with no possibility to maximize the window frame to the whole
> screen, and it is extremely inconvenient.
>
> I do remember that I had a similar problem in Gnome 2 under Ubuntu but
> somehow managed to get to the configuration where almost all my windows
> had Maximize/Restore and Minimize buttons. The only exception was the
> Firefox sub-window to save a bookmark. :^(
>
> Just now, I have tries FXCE and found out that it opens all the
> sub-windows with the Maximize/Restore, Close and Minimize buttons "out
> of the box" and without recompilation of all the programs that do not do
> the same in Gnome (except for the Firefox bookmark sub-window, of course).
>
> However, I am reluctant to migrate to FXCE right now because at the
> moment I cannot achieve the same look-and-feel as in my Gnome
> (especially, I miss the the all-in-one clock-calendar-weather applet
> with the world map showing the daytime at different locations).
>
> Could anybody advise me how to get the Close, Maximize/Restore and
> Minimize buttons in all window frames in Gnome 2.


I think the true answer is

"You can't. The Gnome devs know better than you what you want"

I'm happy to be proved wrong though.

If it bothers you, just migrate to XFCE and deal with the pain. It will
last only a short time.


--
Alan McKinnon
[hidden email]


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Re: Deficient Gnome Window Frames

gevisz

2013/9/5 Alan McKinnon <[hidden email]>
On 05/09/2013 14:51, gevisz wrote:
> Usually, when I open a new window frame in Gnome 2, I have a Close,
> Maximize/Restore and Minimize buttons on its upper-right corner.
>
> Sometimes, however, especially when I open a supplementary window frame
> from a running program, its upper (text) bar contains only the Close
> button with no possibility to maximize the window frame to the whole
> screen, and it is extremely inconvenient.
>
> I do remember that I had a similar problem in Gnome 2 under Ubuntu but
> somehow managed to get to the configuration where almost all my windows
> had Maximize/Restore and Minimize buttons. The only exception was the
> Firefox sub-window to save a bookmark. :^(
>
> Just now, I have tries FXCE and found out that it opens all the
> sub-windows with the Maximize/Restore, Close and Minimize buttons "out
> of the box" and without recompilation of all the programs that do not do
> the same in Gnome (except for the Firefox bookmark sub-window, of course).
>
> However, I am reluctant to migrate to FXCE right now because at the
> moment I cannot achieve the same look-and-feel as in my Gnome
> (especially, I miss the the all-in-one clock-calendar-weather applet
> with the world map showing the daytime at different locations).
>
> Could anybody advise me how to get the Close, Maximize/Restore and
> Minimize buttons in all window frames in Gnome 2.


I think the true answer is

"You can't. The Gnome devs know better than you what you want"

I'm happy to be proved wrong though.

If it bothers you, just migrate to XFCE and deal with the pain. It will
last only a short time.

Alan McKinnon [hidden email]


Currently, Gnome works better than Xfce for me, because so far

1)  I found no way to switch keyboard layout from English to any other
     language (while Gnome and DWM do this after tackling with evdev
     configs),

2) Gnome allows more combinations for hot key bindings, for example,
     I can not assign <Win>+<Shift>+<any letter> to any program launcher
     in Fxce, while it does work in Gnome,

3) installing Orange in FXCE involves unmasking some dependent
    packages, but I like to stick to the stable thread.

All in all, I do understand why Linus said that Xfce is a step back compared to Gnome 2
(but I still have not got why Xfce is a big step forward compared with Gnome 3 :^), as
have not tried it so far).

P.S. I will probably post a separate question, but if somebody can
        explain how to setup language keyboad layout switch in Fxce,
        you are welcome. :^)

        I set up toggling the keyboard layout to <rWin> key in
       /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/10-evdev.conf as follows:

       Option "XkbOptions" "grp:rwin_toggle,grp_led:scroll,compose:menu,terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"

       It works for  Gnome and DWM but not for Xfce. :^(

       Moreover, I need the keyboard layout indicator somewhere on the Xfce panel,
       but could not find any.

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Re: Deficient Gnome Window Frames

gevisz
2013/9/6 gevisz <[hidden email]>

2013/9/5 Alan McKinnon <[hidden email]>
On 05/09/2013 14:51, gevisz wrote:
> Usually, when I open a new window frame in Gnome 2, I have a Close,
> Maximize/Restore and Minimize buttons on its upper-right corner.
>
> Sometimes, however, especially when I open a supplementary window frame
> from a running program, its upper (text) bar contains only the Close
> button with no possibility to maximize the window frame to the whole
> screen, and it is extremely inconvenient.
>
> I do remember that I had a similar problem in Gnome 2 under Ubuntu but
> somehow managed to get to the configuration where almost all my windows
> had Maximize/Restore and Minimize buttons. The only exception was the
> Firefox sub-window to save a bookmark. :^(
>
> Just now, I have tries FXCE and found out that it opens all the
> sub-windows with the Maximize/Restore, Close and Minimize buttons "out
> of the box" and without recompilation of all the programs that do not do
> the same in Gnome (except for the Firefox bookmark sub-window, of course).
>
> However, I am reluctant to migrate to FXCE right now because at the
> moment I cannot achieve the same look-and-feel as in my Gnome
> (especially, I miss the the all-in-one clock-calendar-weather applet
> with the world map showing the daytime at different locations).
>
> Could anybody advise me how to get the Close, Maximize/Restore and
> Minimize buttons in all window frames in Gnome 2.


I think the true answer is

"You can't. The Gnome devs know better than you what you want"

I'm happy to be proved wrong though.

If it bothers you, just migrate to XFCE and deal with the pain. It will
last only a short time.

Alan McKinnon [hidden email]


Currently, Gnome works better than Xfce for me, because so far

1)  I found no way to switch keyboard layout from English to any other
     language (while Gnome and DWM do this after tackling with evdev
     configs),

2) Gnome allows more combinations for hot key bindings, for example,
     I can not assign <Win>+<Shift>+<any letter> to any program launcher
     in Fxce, while it does work in Gnome,

3) installing Orange in FXCE involves unmasking some dependent
    packages, but I like to stick to the stable thread.

All in all, I do understand why Linus said that Xfce is a step back compared to Gnome 2
(but I still have not got why Xfce is a big step forward compared with Gnome 3 :^), as
have not tried it so far).

P.S. I will probably post a separate question, but if somebody can
        explain how to setup language keyboad layout switch in Fxce,
        you are welcome. :^)

        I set up toggling the keyboard layout to <rWin> key in
       /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/10-evdev.conf as follows:

       Option "XkbOptions" "grp:rwin_toggle,grp_led:scroll,compose:menu,terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"

       It works for  Gnome and DWM but not for Xfce. :^(

       Moreover, I need the keyboard layout indicator somewhere on the Xfce panel,
       but could not find any.


A short update: after installing xfce4-xkb-plugin, which was not included in the xfce4-meta package
(and I did not noticed it earlier), I finally got a keyboard layout indicator. At first, it did not work, that is,
I could not switch a keyboard layout in no way. However, later, after changing some of the plugin's
settings, it suddenly started to switch the keyboard layout. Interestingly, the applet continued to switch
the keyboard layout even after I have changed all its settings to the original ones. Magically, the <rWin>
key also started to switch the keyboard layout.

So, my first and most important objection against Xfce4 is no more valid. The third one is not
so important. Only the second is a bit annoying but one can live with it. :^)

Now, my Xfce4 looks almost like my Gnome2. Its weather applet is even more informative. :^)

However, my original question about Deficient Gnome Window Frames is still valid.

But not so important any more. :^)

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Re: Deficient Gnome Window Frames

Canek Peláez Valdés
On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 1:55 PM, gevisz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2013/9/6 gevisz <[hidden email]>
>>
>>
>> 2013/9/5 Alan McKinnon <[hidden email]>
>>>
>>> On 05/09/2013 14:51, gevisz wrote:
>>> > Usually, when I open a new window frame in Gnome 2, I have a Close,
>>> > Maximize/Restore and Minimize buttons on its upper-right corner.
>>> >
>>> > Sometimes, however, especially when I open a supplementary window frame
>>> > from a running program, its upper (text) bar contains only the Close
>>> > button with no possibility to maximize the window frame to the whole
>>> > screen, and it is extremely inconvenient.
>>> >
>>> > I do remember that I had a similar problem in Gnome 2 under Ubuntu but
>>> > somehow managed to get to the configuration where almost all my windows
>>> > had Maximize/Restore and Minimize buttons. The only exception was the
>>> > Firefox sub-window to save a bookmark. :^(
>>> >
>>> > Just now, I have tries FXCE and found out that it opens all the
>>> > sub-windows with the Maximize/Restore, Close and Minimize buttons "out
>>> > of the box" and without recompilation of all the programs that do not
>>> > do
>>> > the same in Gnome (except for the Firefox bookmark sub-window, of
>>> > course).
>>> >
>>> > However, I am reluctant to migrate to FXCE right now because at the
>>> > moment I cannot achieve the same look-and-feel as in my Gnome
>>> > (especially, I miss the the all-in-one clock-calendar-weather applet
>>> > with the world map showing the daytime at different locations).
>>> >
>>> > Could anybody advise me how to get the Close, Maximize/Restore and
>>> > Minimize buttons in all window frames in Gnome 2.
>>>
>>>
>>> I think the true answer is
>>>
>>> "You can't. The Gnome devs know better than you what you want"
>>>
>>> I'm happy to be proved wrong though.
>>>
>>> If it bothers you, just migrate to XFCE and deal with the pain. It will
>>> last only a short time.
>>>
>>> Alan McKinnon [hidden email]
>>>
>>
>> Currently, Gnome works better than Xfce for me, because so far
>>
>> 1)  I found no way to switch keyboard layout from English to any other
>>      language (while Gnome and DWM do this after tackling with evdev
>>      configs),
>>
>> 2) Gnome allows more combinations for hot key bindings, for example,
>>      I can not assign <Win>+<Shift>+<any letter> to any program launcher
>>      in Fxce, while it does work in Gnome,
>>
>> 3) installing Orange in FXCE involves unmasking some dependent
>>     packages, but I like to stick to the stable thread.
>>
>> All in all, I do understand why Linus said that Xfce is a step back
>> compared to Gnome 2
>> (but I still have not got why Xfce is a big step forward compared with
>> Gnome 3 :^), as
>> have not tried it so far).
>>
>> P.S. I will probably post a separate question, but if somebody can
>>         explain how to setup language keyboad layout switch in Fxce,
>>         you are welcome. :^)
>>
>>         I set up toggling the keyboard layout to <rWin> key in
>>        /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/10-evdev.conf as follows:
>>
>>        Option "XkbOptions"
>> "grp:rwin_toggle,grp_led:scroll,compose:menu,terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
>>
>>        It works for  Gnome and DWM but not for Xfce. :^(
>>
>>        Moreover, I need the keyboard layout indicator somewhere on the
>> Xfce panel,
>>        but could not find any.
>>
>
> A short update: after installing xfce4-xkb-plugin, which was not included in
> the xfce4-meta package
> (and I did not noticed it earlier), I finally got a keyboard layout
> indicator. At first, it did not work, that is,
> I could not switch a keyboard layout in no way. However, later, after
> changing some of the plugin's
> settings, it suddenly started to switch the keyboard layout. Interestingly,
> the applet continued to switch
> the keyboard layout even after I have changed all its settings to the
> original ones. Magically, the <rWin>
> key also started to switch the keyboard layout.
>
> So, my first and most important objection against Xfce4 is no more valid.
> The third one is not
> so important. Only the second is a bit annoying but one can live with it.
> :^)
>
> Now, my Xfce4 looks almost like my Gnome2. Its weather applet is even more
> informative. :^)

If you want GNOME 2, you should try MATE. GNOME 2 is unsupported; It's
been years since somebody actually worked on it. Bugs, bitrot and
security vulnerabilities are probably (if not surely) present in the
code base.

MATE supposedly tries to keep GNOME 2 alive (although its homepage is down).

Regards.
--
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

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Re: Deficient Gnome Window Frames

gevisz
2013/9/6 Canek Peláez Valdés <[hidden email]>
On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 1:55 PM, gevisz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> 2013/9/6 gevisz <[hidden email]>
>>
>>
>> 2013/9/5 Alan McKinnon <[hidden email]>
>>>
>>> On 05/09/2013 14:51, gevisz wrote:
>>> > Usually, when I open a new window frame in Gnome 2, I have a Close,
>>> > Maximize/Restore and Minimize buttons on its upper-right corner.
>>> >
>>> > Sometimes, however, especially when I open a supplementary window frame
>>> > from a running program, its upper (text) bar contains only the Close
>>> > button with no possibility to maximize the window frame to the whole
>>> > screen, and it is extremely inconvenient.
>>> >
>>> > I do remember that I had a similar problem in Gnome 2 under Ubuntu but
>>> > somehow managed to get to the configuration where almost all my windows
>>> > had Maximize/Restore and Minimize buttons. The only exception was the
>>> > Firefox sub-window to save a bookmark. :^(
>>> >
>>> > Just now, I have tries FXCE and found out that it opens all the
>>> > sub-windows with the Maximize/Restore, Close and Minimize buttons "out
>>> > of the box" and without recompilation of all the programs that do not
>>> > do
>>> > the same in Gnome (except for the Firefox bookmark sub-window, of
>>> > course).
>>> >
>>> > However, I am reluctant to migrate to FXCE right now because at the
>>> > moment I cannot achieve the same look-and-feel as in my Gnome
>>> > (especially, I miss the the all-in-one clock-calendar-weather applet
>>> > with the world map showing the daytime at different locations).
>>> >
>>> > Could anybody advise me how to get the Close, Maximize/Restore and
>>> > Minimize buttons in all window frames in Gnome 2.
>>>
>>>
>>> I think the true answer is
>>>
>>> "You can't. The Gnome devs know better than you what you want"
>>>
>>> I'm happy to be proved wrong though.
>>>
>>> If it bothers you, just migrate to XFCE and deal with the pain. It will
>>> last only a short time.
>>>
>>> Alan McKinnon [hidden email]
>>>
>>
>> Currently, Gnome works better than Xfce for me, because so far
>>
>> 1)  I found no way to switch keyboard layout from English to any other
>>      language (while Gnome and DWM do this after tackling with evdev
>>      configs),
>>
>> 2) Gnome allows more combinations for hot key bindings, for example,
>>      I can not assign <Win>+<Shift>+<any letter> to any program launcher
>>      in Fxce, while it does work in Gnome,
>>
>> 3) installing Orange in FXCE involves unmasking some dependent
>>     packages, but I like to stick to the stable thread.
>>
>> All in all, I do understand why Linus said that Xfce is a step back
>> compared to Gnome 2
>> (but I still have not got why Xfce is a big step forward compared with
>> Gnome 3 :^), as
>> have not tried it so far).
>>
>> P.S. I will probably post a separate question, but if somebody can
>>         explain how to setup language keyboad layout switch in Fxce,
>>         you are welcome. :^)
>>
>>         I set up toggling the keyboard layout to <rWin> key in
>>        /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/10-evdev.conf as follows:
>>
>>        Option "XkbOptions"
>> "grp:rwin_toggle,grp_led:scroll,compose:menu,terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
>>
>>        It works for  Gnome and DWM but not for Xfce. :^(
>>
>>        Moreover, I need the keyboard layout indicator somewhere on the
>> Xfce panel,
>>        but could not find any.
>>
>
> A short update: after installing xfce4-xkb-plugin, which was not included in
> the xfce4-meta package
> (and I did not noticed it earlier), I finally got a keyboard layout
> indicator. At first, it did not work, that is,
> I could not switch a keyboard layout in no way. However, later, after
> changing some of the plugin's
> settings, it suddenly started to switch the keyboard layout. Interestingly,
> the applet continued to switch
> the keyboard layout even after I have changed all its settings to the
> original ones. Magically, the <rWin>
> key also started to switch the keyboard layout.
>
> So, my first and most important objection against Xfce4 is no more valid.
> The third one is not
> so important. Only the second is a bit annoying but one can live with it.
> :^)
>
> Now, my Xfce4 looks almost like my Gnome2. Its weather applet is even more
> informative. :^)

If you want GNOME 2, you should try MATE. GNOME 2 is unsupported; It's
been years since somebody actually worked on it. Bugs, bitrot and
security vulnerabilities are probably (if not surely) present in the
code base.

MATE supposedly tries to keep GNOME 2 alive (although its homepage is down).
--
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México


But I have not found MATE in portage...

Anyway, it is not so important now, as I have already almost satisfied with my present Xfce setup.

Thank you for the reply and have a nice weekend.

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Re: Deficient Gnome Window Frames

Paul Hartman-3
On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 2:28 PM, gevisz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> But I have not found MATE in portage...

I see there is a mate overlay available in layman

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Re: Deficient Gnome Window Frames

Alan McKinnon-2
In reply to this post by gevisz
On 06/09/2013 20:55, gevisz wrote:

> 2013/9/6 gevisz <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>
>
>     2013/9/5 Alan McKinnon <[hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>
>         On 05/09/2013 14:51, gevisz wrote:
>         > Usually, when I open a new window frame in Gnome 2, I have a
>         Close,
>         > Maximize/Restore and Minimize buttons on its upper-right corner.
>         >
>         > Sometimes, however, especially when I open a supplementary
>         window frame
>         > from a running program, its upper (text) bar contains only the
>         Close
>         > button with no possibility to maximize the window frame to the
>         whole
>         > screen, and it is extremely inconvenient.
>         >
>         > I do remember that I had a similar problem in Gnome 2 under
>         Ubuntu but
>         > somehow managed to get to the configuration where almost all
>         my windows
>         > had Maximize/Restore and Minimize buttons. The only exception
>         was the
>         > Firefox sub-window to save a bookmark. :^(
>         >
>         > Just now, I have tries FXCE and found out that it opens all the
>         > sub-windows with the Maximize/Restore, Close and Minimize
>         buttons "out
>         > of the box" and without recompilation of all the programs that
>         do not do
>         > the same in Gnome (except for the Firefox bookmark sub-window,
>         of course).
>         >
>         > However, I am reluctant to migrate to FXCE right now because
>         at the
>         > moment I cannot achieve the same look-and-feel as in my Gnome
>         > (especially, I miss the the all-in-one clock-calendar-weather
>         applet
>         > with the world map showing the daytime at different locations).
>         >
>         > Could anybody advise me how to get the Close, Maximize/Restore and
>         > Minimize buttons in all window frames in Gnome 2.
>
>
>         I think the true answer is
>
>         "You can't. The Gnome devs know better than you what you want"
>
>         I'm happy to be proved wrong though.
>
>         If it bothers you, just migrate to XFCE and deal with the pain.
>         It will
>         last only a short time.
>
>         Alan McKinnon [hidden email]
>         <mailto:[hidden email]>
>
>
>     Currently, Gnome works better than Xfce for me, because so far
>
>     1)  I found no way to switch keyboard layout from English to any other
>          language (while Gnome and DWM do this after tackling with evdev
>          configs),
>
>     2) Gnome allows more combinations for hot key bindings, for example,
>          I can not assign <Win>+<Shift>+<any letter> to any program launcher
>          in Fxce, while it does work in Gnome,
>
>     3) installing Orange in FXCE involves unmasking some dependent
>         packages, but I like to stick to the stable thread.
>
>     All in all, I do understand why Linus said that Xfce is a step back
>     compared to Gnome 2
>     (but I still have not got why Xfce is a big step forward compared
>     with Gnome 3 :^), as
>     have not tried it so far).
>
>     P.S. I will probably post a separate question, but if somebody can
>             explain how to setup language keyboad layout switch in Fxce,
>             you are welcome. :^)
>
>             I set up toggling the keyboard layout to <rWin> key in
>            /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/10-evdev.conf as follows:
>
>            Option "XkbOptions"
>     "grp:rwin_toggle,grp_led:scroll,compose:menu,terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
>
>            It works for  Gnome and DWM but not for Xfce. :^(
>
>            Moreover, I need the keyboard layout indicator somewhere on
>     the Xfce panel,
>            but could not find any.
>
>
> A short update: after installing xfce4-xkb-plugin, which was not
> included in the xfce4-meta package
> (and I did not noticed it earlier), I finally got a keyboard layout
> indicator. At first, it did not work, that is,
> I could not switch a keyboard layout in no way. However, later, after
> changing some of the plugin's
> settings, it suddenly started to switch the keyboard layout.
> Interestingly, the applet continued to switch
> the keyboard layout even after I have changed all its settings to the
> original ones. Magically, the <rWin>
> key also started to switch the keyboard layout.
>
> So, my first and most important objection against Xfce4 is no more
> valid. The third one is not
> so important. Only the second is a bit annoying but one can live with
> it. :^)
>
> Now, my Xfce4 looks almost like my Gnome2. Its weather applet is even
> more informative. :^)
>
> However, my original question about Deficient Gnome Window Frames is
> still valid.
>
> But not so important any more. :^)


Window decorations are usually done by the window manager, I assume
Gnome2 is no different?

Have you tried running a different window manager that supports what you
want?
What is the Gnome2 wm anyway? Metacity? (it's been so long since I
looked, I've forgotten)


--
Alan McKinnon
[hidden email]


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Re: Deficient Gnome Window Frames

Marc Stuermer
In reply to this post by Paul Hartman-3
Am 06.09.2013 21:47, schrieb Paul Hartman:
> On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 2:28 PM, gevisz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> But I have not found MATE in portage...
>
> I see there is a mate overlay available in layman

layman -a mate

GNOME 2.X is been dead since a few years. They went to develop that ugly
beast they call GNOME 3.

MATE is the proven and working fork of GNOME 2.X. If you want GNOME 2.X,
then you should take a look at it indeed.


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Re: Deficient Gnome Window Frames

gevisz
In reply to this post by Alan McKinnon-2
2013/9/6 Alan McKinnon <[hidden email]>
On 06/09/2013 20:55, gevisz wrote:
> 2013/9/6 gevisz <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>
>
>     2013/9/5 Alan McKinnon <[hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>
>         On 05/09/2013 14:51, gevisz wrote:
>         > Usually, when I open a new window frame in Gnome 2, I have a
>         Close,
>         > Maximize/Restore and Minimize buttons on its upper-right corner.
>         >
>         > Sometimes, however, especially when I open a supplementary
>         window frame
>         > from a running program, its upper (text) bar contains only the
>         Close
>         > button with no possibility to maximize the window frame to the
>         whole
>         > screen, and it is extremely inconvenient.
>         >
>         > I do remember that I had a similar problem in Gnome 2 under
>         Ubuntu but
>         > somehow managed to get to the configuration where almost all
>         my windows
>         > had Maximize/Restore and Minimize buttons. The only exception
>         was the
>         > Firefox sub-window to save a bookmark. :^(
>         >
>         > Just now, I have tries FXCE and found out that it opens all the
>         > sub-windows with the Maximize/Restore, Close and Minimize
>         buttons "out
>         > of the box" and without recompilation of all the programs that
>         do not do
>         > the same in Gnome (except for the Firefox bookmark sub-window,
>         of course).
>         >
>         > However, I am reluctant to migrate to FXCE right now because
>         at the
>         > moment I cannot achieve the same look-and-feel as in my Gnome
>         > (especially, I miss the the all-in-one clock-calendar-weather
>         applet
>         > with the world map showing the daytime at different locations).
>         >
>         > Could anybody advise me how to get the Close, Maximize/Restore and
>         > Minimize buttons in all window frames in Gnome 2.
>
>
>         I think the true answer is
>
>         "You can't. The Gnome devs know better than you what you want"
>
>         I'm happy to be proved wrong though.
>
>         If it bothers you, just migrate to XFCE and deal with the pain.
>         It will
>         last only a short time.
>
>         Alan McKinnon [hidden email]
>         <mailto:[hidden email]>
>
>
>     Currently, Gnome works better than Xfce for me, because so far
>
>     1)  I found no way to switch keyboard layout from English to any other
>          language (while Gnome and DWM do this after tackling with evdev
>          configs),
>
>     2) Gnome allows more combinations for hot key bindings, for example,
>          I can not assign <Win>+<Shift>+<any letter> to any program launcher
>          in Fxce, while it does work in Gnome,
>
>     3) installing Orange in FXCE involves unmasking some dependent
>         packages, but I like to stick to the stable thread.
>
>     All in all, I do understand why Linus said that Xfce is a step back
>     compared to Gnome 2
>     (but I still have not got why Xfce is a big step forward compared
>     with Gnome 3 :^), as
>     have not tried it so far).
>
>     P.S. I will probably post a separate question, but if somebody can
>             explain how to setup language keyboad layout switch in Fxce,
>             you are welcome. :^)
>
>             I set up toggling the keyboard layout to <rWin> key in
>            /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/10-evdev.conf as follows:
>
>            Option "XkbOptions"
>     "grp:rwin_toggle,grp_led:scroll,compose:menu,terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
>
>            It works for  Gnome and DWM but not for Xfce. :^(
>
>            Moreover, I need the keyboard layout indicator somewhere on
>     the Xfce panel,
>            but could not find any.
>
>
> A short update: after installing xfce4-xkb-plugin, which was not
> included in the xfce4-meta package
> (and I did not noticed it earlier), I finally got a keyboard layout
> indicator. At first, it did not work, that is,
> I could not switch a keyboard layout in no way. However, later, after
> changing some of the plugin's
> settings, it suddenly started to switch the keyboard layout.
> Interestingly, the applet continued to switch
> the keyboard layout even after I have changed all its settings to the
> original ones. Magically, the <rWin>
> key also started to switch the keyboard layout.
>
> So, my first and most important objection against Xfce4 is no more
> valid. The third one is not
> so important. Only the second is a bit annoying but one can live with
> it. :^)
>
> Now, my Xfce4 looks almost like my Gnome2. Its weather applet is even
> more informative. :^)
>
> However, my original question about Deficient Gnome Window Frames is
> still valid.
>
> But not so important any more. :^)


Window decorations are usually done by the window manager, I assume
Gnome2 is no different?

Have you tried running a different window manager that supports what you
want?
What is the Gnome2 wm anyway? Metacity? (it's been so long since I
looked, I've forgotten)

Yes, the Gnome 2 window manager is Metacity.

However, I never configured my Gnome 2. :^)

I migrated to Gentoo from Ubuntu 10.04 LTS and, after mounting my old home partition,
Gnome 2 transparently used its old configs from Ubuntu.

I think that that old Gnome 2 configs may be the reason that, at first, I could not get
the keyboard layout switch in Fxce4.

However, now I have found all that need in Xfce4 and almost completely satisfied with it.

The only two features that I do not like in Xfce is
1) the ugly icons of Xfce4 weather applet (Gnome 2 had much better ones) and that
2) I can not assign <Win>+<Shift>+<any letter> to any program launcher in Fxce4, while it does work in Gnome

 


--
Alan McKinnon
[hidden email]



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Re: Deficient Gnome Window Frames

gevisz
In reply to this post by Marc Stuermer
2013/9/7 Marc Stürmer <[hidden email]>
Am 06.09.2013 21:47, schrieb Paul Hartman:

On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 2:28 PM, gevisz <[hidden email]> wrote:
But I have not found MATE in portage...

I see there is a mate overlay available in layman

layman -a mate

Thank you for the hint.

I still have to learn how to use overlays...

... because I still need an omegaT (that is absent from portage)
    and Skype (that is masked).

Is it safe to use packages from overlays?

Is there any ways to cleanly uninstall packages installed from overlays?
 

GNOME 2.X is been dead since a few years. They went to develop that ugly beast they call GNOME 3.

MATE is the proven and working fork of GNOME 2.X. If you want GNOME 2.X, then you should take a look at it indeed.



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Re: Deficient Gnome Window Frames

Alan McKinnon-2
On 08/09/2013 12:09, gevisz wrote:

> 2013/9/7 Marc Stürmer <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>
>     Am 06.09.2013 21:47, schrieb Paul Hartman:
>
>         On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 2:28 PM, gevisz <[hidden email]
>         <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>             But I have not found MATE in portage...
>
>
>         I see there is a mate overlay available in layman
>
>
>     layman -a mate
>
>
> Thank you for the hint.
>
> I still have to learn how to use overlays...

emerge layman
  [follow elog instructions on what to do with make.conf
layman -L
  [pick the overlay you want
layman -a <overlay_you_want>


>
> ... because I still need an omegaT (that is absent from portage)
>     and Skype (that is masked).

Put ebuilds for them in your local overlay. It's not the same thing as
layman - local overlay is just a directory with ebuilds you maintain
yourself, tell portage where it is and it treats those ebuilds like they
are in the main tree. it's fully documented in the portage docs


> Is it safe to use packages from overlays?

Depends. Is it safe to install software? An overlay is just ebuilds that
fetches and builds software. may it's useful, maybe it's malware, maybe
it's buggy, maybe it's not.

If you real question is "Is there some official QA applied to overlays?"
the answer is no. You either need to trust the overlay maintainer, or do
the QA yourself.


> Is there any ways to cleanly uninstall packages installed from overlays?

Same as any other package:

emerge -C


To remove an installed overlay:

layman -d <overlay_name>

That just removes a tree of ebuilds. Portage tells you what is now out
of sync with the next "emerge -uND world"


--
Alan McKinnon
[hidden email]


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Re: Deficient Gnome Window Frames

Mick-10
In reply to this post by gevisz
On Sunday 08 Sep 2013 11:09:23 gevisz wrote:

> I still have to learn how to use overlays...
>
> ... because I still need an omegaT (that is absent from portage)
>     and Skype (that is masked).

Since Skype is in portage you can unmask it in
/etc/portage/package.keywords/skype.keywords, with something like:

net-im/skype ~amd64


> Is it safe to use packages from overlays?

"Safe" in what sense?


> Is there any ways to cleanly uninstall packages installed from overlays?

emerge -Ca <package_atom>


--
Regards,
Mick

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Re: Deficient Gnome Window Frames

Alan McKinnon-2
In reply to this post by gevisz
On 08/09/2013 12:02, gevisz wrote:

> 2013/9/6 Alan McKinnon <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>
>     On 06/09/2013 20:55, gevisz wrote:
>     > 2013/9/6 gevisz <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     <mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>>
>     >
>     >
>     >     2013/9/5 Alan McKinnon <[hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     >     <mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>>
>     >
>     >         On 05/09/2013 14:51, gevisz wrote:
>     >         > Usually, when I open a new window frame in Gnome 2, I have a
>     >         Close,
>     >         > Maximize/Restore and Minimize buttons on its upper-right
>     corner.
>     >         >
>     >         > Sometimes, however, especially when I open a supplementary
>     >         window frame
>     >         > from a running program, its upper (text) bar contains
>     only the
>     >         Close
>     >         > button with no possibility to maximize the window frame
>     to the
>     >         whole
>     >         > screen, and it is extremely inconvenient.
>     >         >
>     >         > I do remember that I had a similar problem in Gnome 2 under
>     >         Ubuntu but
>     >         > somehow managed to get to the configuration where almost all
>     >         my windows
>     >         > had Maximize/Restore and Minimize buttons. The only
>     exception
>     >         was the
>     >         > Firefox sub-window to save a bookmark. :^(
>     >         >
>     >         > Just now, I have tries FXCE and found out that it opens
>     all the
>     >         > sub-windows with the Maximize/Restore, Close and Minimize
>     >         buttons "out
>     >         > of the box" and without recompilation of all the
>     programs that
>     >         do not do
>     >         > the same in Gnome (except for the Firefox bookmark
>     sub-window,
>     >         of course).
>     >         >
>     >         > However, I am reluctant to migrate to FXCE right now because
>     >         at the
>     >         > moment I cannot achieve the same look-and-feel as in my
>     Gnome
>     >         > (especially, I miss the the all-in-one
>     clock-calendar-weather
>     >         applet
>     >         > with the world map showing the daytime at different
>     locations).
>     >         >
>     >         > Could anybody advise me how to get the Close,
>     Maximize/Restore and
>     >         > Minimize buttons in all window frames in Gnome 2.
>     >
>     >
>     >         I think the true answer is
>     >
>     >         "You can't. The Gnome devs know better than you what you want"
>     >
>     >         I'm happy to be proved wrong though.
>     >
>     >         If it bothers you, just migrate to XFCE and deal with the
>     pain.
>     >         It will
>     >         last only a short time.
>     >
>     >         Alan McKinnon [hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     >         <mailto:[hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>     >
>     >
>     >     Currently, Gnome works better than Xfce for me, because so far
>     >
>     >     1)  I found no way to switch keyboard layout from English to
>     any other
>     >          language (while Gnome and DWM do this after tackling with
>     evdev
>     >          configs),
>     >
>     >     2) Gnome allows more combinations for hot key bindings, for
>     example,
>     >          I can not assign <Win>+<Shift>+<any letter> to any
>     program launcher
>     >          in Fxce, while it does work in Gnome,
>     >
>     >     3) installing Orange in FXCE involves unmasking some dependent
>     >         packages, but I like to stick to the stable thread.
>     >
>     >     All in all, I do understand why Linus said that Xfce is a step
>     back
>     >     compared to Gnome 2
>     >     (but I still have not got why Xfce is a big step forward compared
>     >     with Gnome 3 :^), as
>     >     have not tried it so far).
>     >
>     >     P.S. I will probably post a separate question, but if somebody can
>     >             explain how to setup language keyboad layout switch in
>     Fxce,
>     >             you are welcome. :^)
>     >
>     >             I set up toggling the keyboard layout to <rWin> key in
>     >            /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/10-evdev.conf as follows:
>     >
>     >            Option "XkbOptions"
>     >    
>     "grp:rwin_toggle,grp_led:scroll,compose:menu,terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
>     >
>     >            It works for  Gnome and DWM but not for Xfce. :^(
>     >
>     >            Moreover, I need the keyboard layout indicator somewhere on
>     >     the Xfce panel,
>     >            but could not find any.
>     >
>     >
>     > A short update: after installing xfce4-xkb-plugin, which was not
>     > included in the xfce4-meta package
>     > (and I did not noticed it earlier), I finally got a keyboard layout
>     > indicator. At first, it did not work, that is,
>     > I could not switch a keyboard layout in no way. However, later, after
>     > changing some of the plugin's
>     > settings, it suddenly started to switch the keyboard layout.
>     > Interestingly, the applet continued to switch
>     > the keyboard layout even after I have changed all its settings to the
>     > original ones. Magically, the <rWin>
>     > key also started to switch the keyboard layout.
>     >
>     > So, my first and most important objection against Xfce4 is no more
>     > valid. The third one is not
>     > so important. Only the second is a bit annoying but one can live with
>     > it. :^)
>     >
>     > Now, my Xfce4 looks almost like my Gnome2. Its weather applet is even
>     > more informative. :^)
>     >
>     > However, my original question about Deficient Gnome Window Frames is
>     > still valid.
>     >
>     > But not so important any more. :^)
>
>
>     Window decorations are usually done by the window manager, I assume
>     Gnome2 is no different?
>
>     Have you tried running a different window manager that supports what you
>     want?
>     What is the Gnome2 wm anyway? Metacity? (it's been so long since I
>     looked, I've forgotten)
>
>
> Yes, the Gnome 2 window manager is Metacity.
>
> However, I never configured my Gnome 2. :^)
>
> I migrated to Gentoo from Ubuntu 10.04 LTS and, after mounting my old
> home partition,
> Gnome 2 transparently used its old configs from Ubuntu.
>
> I think that that old Gnome 2 configs may be the reason that, at first,
> I could not get
> the keyboard layout switch in Fxce4.
>
> However, now I have found all that need in Xfce4 and almost completely
> satisfied with it.
>
> The only two features that I do not like in Xfce is
> 1) the ugly icons of Xfce4 weather applet (Gnome 2 had much better ones)
> and that

Installing and using an icon theme you like ought to fix that. or you
can just find the icon the applet uses and replace it.

> 2) I can not assign <Win>+<Shift>+<any letter> to any program launcher
> in Fxce4, while it does work in Gnome

Keybindings are often set by the DE in use, according to some form of
plan/spec/look'n'feel/guidelines followed by the devs.

Why don't you just shift to using some different meta key that Xfce does
support? You'll need to work through the 10 days or so it takes to
change the muscle memory in your fingers, but it's an option



>
>  
>
>
>
>     --
>     Alan McKinnon
>     [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>
>
>


--
Alan McKinnon
[hidden email]