Experiences with Flatpak?

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Experiences with Flatpak?

Grant Edwards-6
I'm shopping for an IMAP email client that does a decent job of
handling HTML.  After doing a bit of reading I decided the first one
to try would be Geary.

Bzzt!

Though it's in the portage tree unamasked and marked stable, you can't
actually _build_ it, since it requires an old, vulnerable version of
webkit-gtk that _isn't_ in the portage tree.

So I thought maybe I'd try it out using a flatpak "package":

    https://flathub.org/apps/details/org.gnome.Geary

But, flatpak isn't in the standard portage tree, so you have to use an
overlay or local repo.

This is beginning to look like a lot of work.

Is it practical to use flatpak apps on Gentoo?

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email client: was: [gentoo-user] Experiences with Flatpak?

Jack
On 2019.01.25 13:48, Grant Edwards wrote:
> I'm shopping for an IMAP email client that does a decent job of  
> handling HTML.  After doing a bit of reading I decided the first one  
> to try would be Geary.

I can't help you with flatpack, but have you tried balsa for an email  
client?  I mostly use it with POP3, but it DOES do IMAP, and although  
the default setup (at least as I have it set) is to prefer text over  
HTML, it does do HTML.  However, on reply or compose, I'm pretty sure  
it's text only, in case that's a show stopper for you.  Over the years,  
the development teat has been extremely responsive to requests for info  
and enhancement.

Jack
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Re: Experiences with Flatpak?

Canek Peláez Valdés
In reply to this post by Grant Edwards-6
On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 12:48 PM Grant Edwards <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'm shopping for an IMAP email client that does a decent job of
handling HTML.  After doing a bit of reading I decided the first one
to try would be Geary.

Bzzt!

Though it's in the portage tree unamasked and marked stable, you can't
actually _build_ it, since it requires an old, vulnerable version of
webkit-gtk that _isn't_ in the portage tree.

So I thought maybe I'd try it out using a flatpak "package":

    https://flathub.org/apps/details/org.gnome.Geary

But, flatpak isn't in the standard portage tree, so you have to use an
overlay or local repo.

This is beginning to look like a lot of work.

Is it practical to use flatpak apps on Gentoo?

In my experience is amazing. Gentoo sometimes takes a lot of time to stabilize some packages; flatpak usually have them immediately. For nightly builds is even better, since you don't need to pollute your stable system.

I'm using


(I don't use layman) The only keyworded package I have is flatpak-builder; everything else is stable.

I regularly run in flatpak Inkscape, GNOME Builder, Glade, Pitivi, and Steam (Cities: Skylines runs really well in Linux); but you can use it to test new software too. It's trivial to install, update and remove software.

With all these packages, my flatpak repositories are using 13Gb, which is nothing for my hard drive; but it will duplicate libraries from your regular Linux distribution.

Also, I run systemd; I *think* it's necessary to run flatpak.

Regards.
--
Dr. Canek Peláez Valdés
Profesor de Carrera Asociado C
Departamento de Matemáticas
Facultad de Ciencias
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
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Re: Experiences with Flatpak?

Nikos Chantziaras-2
In reply to this post by Grant Edwards-6
On 25/01/2019 20:48, Grant Edwards wrote:
> But, flatpak isn't in the standard portage tree, so you have to use an
> overlay or local repo.
>
> This is beginning to look like a lot of work.
>
> Is it practical to use flatpak apps on Gentoo?

I was using it for a while. Not anymore.

It does exactly what it says on the box. However, GUI applications
installed in flatpak will completely ignore your desktop settings.
flatpak comes with its own gtk/qt/gnome/kde libraries and its own
completely separate settings for the desktop environment.

This is why I'm not using it anymore. GUI apps look like ass.


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Re: email client: was: Experiences with Flatpak?

Grant Edwards-6
In reply to this post by Jack
On 2019-01-25, Jack <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2019.01.25 13:48, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> I'm shopping for an IMAP email client that does a decent job of  
>> handling HTML.  After doing a bit of reading I decided the first one  
>> to try would be Geary.
>
> I can't help you with flatpack, but have you tried balsa for an email  
> client?  I mostly use it with POP3, but it DOES do IMAP, and although  
> the default setup (at least as I have it set) is to prefer text over  
> HTML, it does do HTML.  However, on reply or compose, I'm pretty sure  
> it's text only, in case that's a show stopper for you.

It sort of is.  Though I prefer text-only (and use mutt as my primary
MUA) there are many situations when sending text-only is not
acceptable because Outlook doesn't render it well.  I'm currently
running emails sent via mutt through a utility to format markdown
source as alternative text-only and HTML, but that has some drawbacks
as well -- hence my search for a secondary MUA with good HTML support.

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Re: Experiences with Flatpak?

Grant Edwards-6
In reply to this post by Canek Peláez Valdés
On 2019-01-25, Canek Peláez Valdés <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 12:48 PM Grant Edwards <[hidden email] wrote:
>>[...]
>>
>> Is it practical to use flatpak apps on Gentoo?
>
> In my experience is amazing. Gentoo sometimes takes a lot of time to
> stabilize some packages; flatpak usually have them immediately. For nightly
> builds is even better, since you don't need to pollute your stable system.

[...]

> Also, I run systemd; I *think* it's necessary to run flatpak.

Ouch.  I don't, so that's a bit of a blocker for me.

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Re: Experiences with Flatpak?

Canek Peláez Valdés
In reply to this post by Nikos Chantziaras-2
On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 1:17 PM Nikos Chantziaras <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 25/01/2019 20:48, Grant Edwards wrote:
> But, flatpak isn't in the standard portage tree, so you have to use an
> overlay or local repo.
>
> This is beginning to look like a lot of work.
>
> Is it practical to use flatpak apps on Gentoo?

I was using it for a while. Not anymore.

It does exactly what it says on the box. However, GUI applications
installed in flatpak will completely ignore your desktop settings.
flatpak comes with its own gtk/qt/gnome/kde libraries and its own
completely separate settings for the desktop environment.

This is why I'm not using it anymore. GUI apps look like ass.

That's weird; they look fine for me [1,2]. As yo say, they have different configurations (every application runs in an individual container), but the both look normal.

Regards.

--
Dr. Canek Peláez Valdés
Profesor de Carrera Asociado C
Departamento de Matemáticas
Facultad de Ciencias
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
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Re: Experiences with Flatpak?

Canek Peláez Valdés
In reply to this post by Grant Edwards-6
On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 1:30 PM Grant Edwards <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 2019-01-25, Canek Peláez Valdés <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 12:48 PM Grant Edwards <[hidden email] wrote:
>>[...]
>>
>> Is it practical to use flatpak apps on Gentoo?
>
> In my experience is amazing. Gentoo sometimes takes a lot of time to
> stabilize some packages; flatpak usually have them immediately. For nightly
> builds is even better, since you don't need to pollute your stable system.

[...]

> Also, I run systemd; I *think* it's necessary to run flatpak.

Ouch.  I don't, so that's a bit of a blocker for me.

I'm not sure anymore; flatpak doesn't need systemd and ostree has it as an optional dependency[1]. It may work with OpenRC.


Regards.
--
Dr. Canek Peláez Valdés
Profesor de Carrera Asociado C
Departamento de Matemáticas
Facultad de Ciencias
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
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Re: Experiences with Flatpak?

Alec Ten Harmsel
In reply to this post by Canek Peláez Valdés
On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 01:02:39PM -0600, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 12:48 PM Grant Edwards <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > I'm shopping for an IMAP email client that does a decent job of
> > handling HTML.  After doing a bit of reading I decided the first one
> > to try would be Geary.
> >

I use Thunderbird, it works well.

> >
> > Is it practical to use flatpak apps on Gentoo?
> >
>
> In my experience is amazing. Gentoo sometimes takes a lot of time to
> stabilize some packages; flatpak usually have them immediately. For nightly
> builds is even better, since you don't need to pollute your stable system.
>
> I'm using
>
> git://github.com/fosero/flatpak-overlay.git
>

Same here - it works great. I run closed-source freeware like steam,
spotify, and discord and don't have any problems.

Alec

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Re: Experiences with Flatpak?

J. Roeleveld
In reply to this post by Canek Peláez Valdés
On Friday, January 25, 2019 8:40:32 PM CET Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 1:17 PM Nikos Chantziaras <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On 25/01/2019 20:48, Grant Edwards wrote:
> > > But, flatpak isn't in the standard portage tree, so you have to use an
> > > overlay or local repo.
> > >
> > > This is beginning to look like a lot of work.
> > >
> > > Is it practical to use flatpak apps on Gentoo?
> >
> > I was using it for a while. Not anymore.
> >
> > It does exactly what it says on the box. However, GUI applications
> > installed in flatpak will completely ignore your desktop settings.
> > flatpak comes with its own gtk/qt/gnome/kde libraries and its own
> > completely separate settings for the desktop environment.
> >
> > This is why I'm not using it anymore. GUI apps look like ass.
>
> That's weird; they look fine for me [1,2]. As yo say, they have different
> configurations (every application runs in an individual container), but the
> both look normal.
>
> Regards.
>
> [1] https://aztlan.fciencias.unam.mx/~canek/inkscape-gentoo.jpg
> [2] https://aztlan.fciencias.unam.mx/~canek/inkscape-flatpak.jpg

Disclaimer: Not using Flatpak, so below is only a guess.

I don't think Flatpak copies/uses any theme-settings of the underlying
desktop, but applies the default. If the user has the default settings, it
looks fine. If the user doesn't, than it can look like the 90s. (Depending on
the amount of 'customization')

--
Joost



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Re: Experiences with Flatpak?

J. Roeleveld
In reply to this post by Alec Ten Harmsel
On Saturday, January 26, 2019 8:58:13 PM CET Alec Ten Harmsel wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 01:02:39PM -0600, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> > On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 12:48 PM Grant Edwards <[hidden email]>
> >
> > wrote:
> > > I'm shopping for an IMAP email client that does a decent job of
> > > handling HTML.  After doing a bit of reading I decided the first one
> > > to try would be Geary.
>
> I use Thunderbird, it works well.
>
> > > Is it practical to use flatpak apps on Gentoo?
> >
> > In my experience is amazing. Gentoo sometimes takes a lot of time to
> > stabilize some packages; flatpak usually have them immediately. For
> > nightly
> > builds is even better, since you don't need to pollute your stable system.
> >
> > I'm using
> >
> > git://github.com/fosero/flatpak-overlay.git
>
> Same here - it works great. I run closed-source freeware like steam,
> spotify, and discord and don't have any problems.

I actually run steam without Flatpak or similar. (Unless it uses Flatpak
without telling me).
I use the "steam-overlay" for the steam client and have no issues.

--
Joost



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Re: Experiences with Flatpak?

Grant Edwards-6
In reply to this post by Canek Peláez Valdés
On 2019-01-25, Canek Peláez Valdés <[hidden email]> wrote:

>>> Also, I run systemd; I *think* it's necessary to run flatpak.
>>
>> Ouch.  I don't, so that's a bit of a blocker for me.
>
> I'm not sure anymore; flatpak doesn't need systemd and ostree has it as an
> optional dependency[1]. It may work with OpenRC.
>
> [1] https://github.com/fosero/flatpak-overlay/blob/master/sys-fs/libostree/libostree-2019.1.ebuild#L37

It installs fine without systemd (you need a -systemd USE flag).  But,
following the Gentoo Quick Setup instructions from
https://flatpak.org/setup/Gentoo/ produces this not-so-useful result:

    $ flatpak --version
    Flatpak 1.0.6

    $ flatpak remote-add --if-not-exists flathub https://flathub.org/repo/flathub.flatpakrepo
    Segmentation fault

Color me unimpressed.  So much for "a next-generation technology for
building and distributing desktop applications on Linux Start"...

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