Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative

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Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative

Randy Westlund
For a multitude of reasons, I'd like to get rid of skype.  I've heard several people mention jitsi, but was surprised to find that it's not in the portage tree.

Is jitsi being actively maintained in an overlay somewhere?  Are there plans to put jitsi in the main tree?

Are there other other good alternatives to skype that are supported on gentoo?  What do you guys use?

Randy

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Re: Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative

the guard
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On 08/20/13 19:12, Randy Westlund wrote:
> For a multitude of reasons, I'd like to get rid of skype.
Fun fact.
When I installed Syser (mustdie kernel debugger), Skype began to
complain about it.


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Re: Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative

Pavel Volkov
In reply to this post by Randy Westlund
On Tuesday 20 August 2013 11:12:32 Randy Westlund wrote:
> For a multitude of reasons, I'd like to get rid of skype.  I've heard
> several people mention jitsi, but was surprised to find that it's not in
> the portage tree.
>
> Is jitsi being actively maintained in an overlay somewhere?  Are there plans
> to put jitsi in the main tree?

There's jitsi in overlay (I forgot which). It can't be accepted into tree yet
because it needs to be stripped of bundled libraries and not all of them are
in tree. So the maintainer would have to add those to tree as well.

It's a lot of work and no one has volunteered yet. Find the jitsi bug on
bugs.gentoo.org for more info.

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Re: Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative

the guard
In reply to this post by Randy Westlund
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On 08/20/13 19:12, Randy Westlund wrote:
> For a multitude of reasons, I'd like to get rid of skype.  I've
> heard several people mention jitsi, but was surprised to find that
> it's not in the portage tree.
>
> Is jitsi being actively maintained in an overlay somewhere?  Are
> there plans to put jitsi in the main tree?
>
> Are there other other good alternatives to skype that are supported
> on gentoo?  What do you guys use?

Bear in mind that there's no free replacement for skype.


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Re: Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative

Jean-Christophe Bach-2
* the <[hidden email]> [21.08.2013. @09:35:09 +0400]:

> On 08/20/13 19:12, Randy Westlund wrote:
> > For a multitude of reasons, I'd like to get rid of skype.  I've
> > heard several people mention jitsi, but was surprised to find that
> > it's not in the portage tree.
> >
> > Is jitsi being actively maintained in an overlay somewhere?  Are
> > there plans to put jitsi in the main tree?
> >
> > Are there other other good alternatives to skype that are supported
> > on gentoo?  What do you guys use?
>
> Bear in mind that there's no free replacement for skype.
Well, it depends on what you call a replacement: Jitsi and Ekiga can do
the work as well as Skype, but not with the Skype protocol and
"network". But if your contacts do not care about it, it's ok.
I tried Jitsi last year after the FOSDEM, but it was too much buggy. I
tried again this year (after the FOSDEM again), and I think it si now
usable.
You can also try Ekiga which is also usable on other OS.

With both of these pieces of software, the main problem when moving from
Skype is to change your buddies' habits :\

Regards,

JC

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Re: Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative

Marc Joliet
In reply to this post by the guard
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Am Wed, 21 Aug 2013 09:35:09 +0400
schrieb the <[hidden email]>:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 08/20/13 19:12, Randy Westlund wrote:
> > For a multitude of reasons, I'd like to get rid of skype.  I've
> > heard several people mention jitsi, but was surprised to find that
> > it's not in the portage tree.
> >
> > Is jitsi being actively maintained in an overlay somewhere?  Are
> > there plans to put jitsi in the main tree?
> >
> > Are there other other good alternatives to skype that are supported
> > on gentoo?  What do you guys use?
>
> Bear in mind that there's no free replacement for skype.

Heise (used to be "The H" in English) recently mentioned Tox: http://tox.im/.

If you can read German (or even if you can't, just to check the links), their
articles are:

http://www.heise.de/open/meldung/Skype-Alternative-Tox-einfach-verschluesselt-dezentral-1926996.html
http://www.heise.de/open/meldung/Skype-Alternative-Tox-zum-Ausprobieren-1929033.html

However, it's a very new project and the status is AFAIU "you can try it,
but don't rely on it just yet".  Looking at the build instructions, a Gentoo
ebuild ought to be be fairly easy.

Oh, and not to mention Mumble, which it seems more and more people are using
instead of Skype in the specific situations where it makes sense (conference
calls and such).

HTH
- --
Marc Joliet
- --
"People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we
don't" - Bjarne Stroustrup
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Re: Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative

hasufell
In reply to this post by Randy Westlund
On 08/20/2013 05:12 PM, Randy Westlund wrote:
> I've heard several people mention jitsi, but was surprised to find that it's not in the portage tree.
>

Jitsi is written in java and thus by design buggy, bloated and hard to
maintain.

If you care a lot, you can propose it in sunrise user overlay and I will
accept precompiled java packages there.

Join #gentoo-sunrise and try to avoid random overlays. They have caused
lots of trouble for our users in the past, because there is no one to
review the ebuild most of the time and there is even less protection
against overlays who mess with system packages and thus might break a
LOT of things, partly because they have no idea what they are doing and
partly because they have no access to profiles/ in gx86 and cannot
coordinate any delicate changes.

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Re: Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative

Jean-Christophe Bach-2
* hasufell <[hidden email]> [21.08.2013. @16:48:10 +0200]:

> On 08/20/2013 05:12 PM, Randy Westlund wrote:
> > I've heard several people mention jitsi, but was surprised to find that it's not in the portage tree.
> >
>
> Jitsi is written in java and thus by design buggy, bloated and hard to
> maintain.

What a categorical opinion! Developers are writing code and are making
bugs, whatever the language they use. I am pretty sure I am able to
write buggy, bloated and hard to maintain with Haskell, Ada, Java or any
other language…
It is really easy to criticize the programming language instead of
reviewing the development methods.

The main problem of writing an ebuild for a Java application comes from
bad habits in the Java world: people are usually distributing all
libraries and the program in a big ball of mud. It is great for Windows
users or for users who do not use a real packages manager, but it needs
lot of work to have clean packages.

Regards,

JC

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Re: Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative

hasufell
On 08/21/2013 05:59 PM, Jean-Christophe Bach wrote:

> * hasufell <[hidden email]> [21.08.2013. @16:48:10 +0200]:
>
>> On 08/20/2013 05:12 PM, Randy Westlund wrote:
>>> I've heard several people mention jitsi, but was surprised to find that it's not in the portage tree.
>>>
>>
>> Jitsi is written in java and thus by design buggy, bloated and hard to
>> maintain.
>
> What a categorical opinion! Developers are writing code and are making
> bugs, whatever the language they use. I am pretty sure I am able to
> write buggy, bloated and hard to maintain with Haskell, Ada, Java or any
> other language…
> It is really easy to criticize the programming language instead of
> reviewing the development methods.
>
> The main problem of writing an ebuild for a Java application comes from
> bad habits in the Java world: people are usually distributing all
> libraries and the program in a big ball of mud. It is great for Windows
> users or for users who do not use a real packages manager, but it needs
> lot of work to have clean packages.
>
> Regards,
>
> JC
>

The average java application is buggy, bloated and hard to maintain. And
that is a fact you have to realize as a distributor.

The programming language "java" is another topic and it sucks too, but
yes... you might be able to write non-buggy code.

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Re: Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative

Pavel Volkov
On Wednesday 21 August 2013 18:17:53 hasufell wrote:
> The average java application is buggy, bloated and hard to maintain. And
> that is a fact you have to realize as a distributor.

Okay, then do you consider Jitsi average or not? I'm about to try it.

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Re: Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative

Randy Westlund
In reply to this post by Jean-Christophe Bach-2
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 08:59:07AM +0200, Jean-Christophe Bach wrote:

> Well, it depends on what you call a replacement: Jitsi and Ekiga can do
> the work as well as Skype, but not with the Skype protocol and
> "network". But if your contacts do not care about it, it's ok.
> I tried Jitsi last year after the FOSDEM, but it was too much buggy. I
> tried again this year (after the FOSDEM again), and I think it si now
> usable.
> You can also try Ekiga which is also usable on other OS.
>
> With both of these pieces of software, the main problem when moving from
> Skype is to change your buddies' habits :\
>
> Regards,
>
> JC


Thanks everyone for the explanation of why jitsi isn't in the tree.  That makes sense now.

I'm going to try ekiga and linphone.  I guess there aren't a lot of options right now.

Randy

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Re: Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative

Marc Stuermer
In reply to this post by Randy Westlund
Am 20.08.2013 17:12, schrieb Randy Westlund:
> For a multitude of reasons, I'd like to get rid of skype.  I've heard several people mention jitsi, but was surprised to find that it's not in the portage tree.

Well, there's always been something being called a Skype killer over the
last few years, but no program really killed it.

Even now no program is going to really kill Skype.

And why not? Because most users just want a program that works right out
of the box for them without problems and Skype is just that. It went
great lengths to achieve this goal.



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Re: Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative

hasufell
On 08/22/2013 05:49 PM, Marc Stürmer wrote:
> And why not? Because most users just want a program that works right out
> of the box for them without problems and Skype is just that. It went
> great lengths to achieve this goal.
>

You probably missed those hundreds of bugs we devs and also users were
faced with, including linkage against non-existing sonames, random
crashes and breakage when the binary is stripped.

So this is somewhat wrong information. It's like saying windows works
right out of the box without problems.

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Re: Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative

Marc Stuermer
Am 22.08.2013 17:58, schrieb hasufell:

> You probably missed those hundreds of bugs we devs and also users were
> faced with, including linkage against non-existing sonames, random
> crashes and breakage when the binary is stripped.
>
> So this is somewhat wrong information. It's like saying windows works
> right out of the box without problems.

I am not arguing from the admin site of Skype; I am arguing from the
user side.

You can install Skype almost whereever you want, behind a NAT-Router,
Firewall, whatever, it just works. That's why it is so popular.

Try the same with Ekiga and you got probably tons of troubles.


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Re: Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative

hasufell
On 08/22/2013 06:05 PM, Marc Stürmer wrote:

> Am 22.08.2013 17:58, schrieb hasufell:
>
>> You probably missed those hundreds of bugs we devs and also users were
>> faced with, including linkage against non-existing sonames, random
>> crashes and breakage when the binary is stripped.
>>
>> So this is somewhat wrong information. It's like saying windows works
>> right out of the box without problems.
>
> I am not arguing from the admin site of Skype; I am arguing from the
> user side.

I was arguing from both sides. It is buggy, crashes a lot, consumes a
lot of ressources and is able to slow down your whole desktop, mess with
audio settings and whatnot.

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Re: Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative

Marc Stuermer
Am 22.08.2013 18:08, schrieb hasufell:

> I was arguing from both sides. It is buggy, crashes a lot, consumes a
> lot of ressources and is able to slow down your whole desktop, mess with
> audio settings and whatnot.

Well, your opinion. In my opinion the ease of use out of the box for the
end user is Skype's biggest selling point why it got so popular and no
competitor has reached that yet.


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Re: Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative

hasufell
On 08/22/2013 06:11 PM, Marc Stürmer wrote:
> Am 22.08.2013 18:08, schrieb hasufell:
>
>> I was arguing from both sides. It is buggy, crashes a lot, consumes a
>> lot of ressources and is able to slow down your whole desktop, mess with
>> audio settings and whatnot.
>
> Well, your opinion.
>

Proven by bug reports. Search the distro bug trackers for "skype crash"
and "skype segfault".

I am unable to find the upstream bugtracker, they have probably shut it
down, because they are unable to deal with the amount of bugs coming in
and want to prevent a bad image.

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Re: Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative

stroller-6
In reply to this post by hasufell

On 22 August 2013, at 17:08, hasufell wrote:
> … I was arguing from both sides. It is buggy, crashes a lot, consumes a
> lot of ressources and is able to slow down your whole desktop, mess with
> audio settings and whatnot.

My granny never had these problems, using Skype on her PC.

She uses it to chat to her cousin in Australia.

Whatever your complaints about a messaging application, you offer no solution if you don't offer a way to communicate with users who are only capable of running a setup.exe, who have this tremendously popular and well-known application already installed.

This "network effect" is not a new phenomenon:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_effect

Stroller.


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Re: Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative

the guard
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On 08/23/13 13:21, Stroller wrote:
>
> On 22 August 2013, at 17:08, hasufell wrote:
>> … I was arguing from both sides. It is buggy, crashes a lot,
>> consumes a lot of ressources and is able to slow down your whole
>> desktop, mess with audio settings and whatnot.
>
> My granny never had these problems, using Skype on her PC.
I can assure you that skype consumes tremendous amount of ram.


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Re: Jitsi or Other Skype Alternative

Marc Stuermer
Well... Nowadays RAM is so cheap that this is really no issue. Most recent Computers ship at last with 4 GB so what the Heck.

That aside, jitsi runs on Java and the Java vm is not really leightweight either.



the <[hidden email]> schrieb:
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On 08/23/13 13:21, Stroller wrote:

On 22 August 2013, at 17:08, hasufell wrote:
… I was arguing from both sides. It is buggy, crashes a lot,
consumes a lot of ressources and is able to slow down your whole
desktop, mess with audio settings and whatnot.

My granny never had these problems, using Skype on her PC.
I can assure you that skype consumes tremendous amount of ram.


- --
Stop talking and start compiling.
Linux user #557897
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