KDE: unwanted dependencies

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KDE: unwanted dependencies

Yuri K. Shatroff
Hi people,

I am about to update KDE from 4.10.4 to 4.11.1.
Is it possible to avoid installing various nepomuks and akonadis which
appear to be required now? I have set USE=-semantic-desktop but it
doesn't seem to help.
My current KDE installation is quite happy without that stuff (which
also brings along tons of other crap).

--
Best wishes,
Yuri K. Shatroff

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Re: KDE: unwanted dependencies

Alan McKinnon-2
On 13/09/2013 12:10, Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
> Hi people,
>
> I am about to update KDE from 4.10.4 to 4.11.1.
> Is it possible to avoid installing various nepomuks and akonadis which

No


> appear to be required now? I have set USE=-semantic-desktop but it
> doesn't seem to help.
> My current KDE installation is quite happy without that stuff (which
> also brings along tons of other crap).


The KDE maintainers posted quite extensively about this some time back.

It is too hard to try and extract semantic-desktop out of the KDE build
whilst not breaking everything else. What you now do is allow the stuff
to be built, and disable the function in System Settings.

What this in effect means is you spend an extra 20 minutes building and
have a few more meg of disk space consumed by code than you never run.


--
Alan McKinnon
[hidden email]


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Re: KDE: unwanted dependencies

Yuri K. Shatroff
On 13.09.2013 14:14, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On 13/09/2013 12:10, Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
>> Hi people,
>>
>> I am about to update KDE from 4.10.4 to 4.11.1.
>> Is it possible to avoid installing various nepomuks and akonadis which
>
> No

Pity.

>> appear to be required now? I have set USE=-semantic-desktop but it
>> doesn't seem to help.
>> My current KDE installation is quite happy without that stuff (which
>> also brings along tons of other crap).
>
>
> The KDE maintainers posted quite extensively about this some time back.

Some time back I heard that KDE devs were striving to make KDE more
modular.

> It is too hard to try and extract semantic-desktop out of the KDE build
> whilst not breaking everything else. What you now do is allow the stuff
> to be built, and disable the function in System Settings.

Well why wasn't it too hard before? It's not quite obvious why one's got
to "extract" some additional functionality, as opposed to including it
when needed. A strange approach, all in all.

> What this in effect means is you spend an extra 20 minutes building and
> have a few more meg of disk space consumed by code than you never run.

I personally care little about the megs, but the moral effect. Thousands
of people posted much about these doubtful features and disabling them,
and asked not to include them into KDE base, but all effort was vain. In
trite words, KDE followed the windows way: we know better what you need...
(Okay, no offense.)
BTW, it seems that mysql is also a hard dependency for QT now. At least,
the average joe can't be scorned any more for not having a "server". Hey
to all localhost admins! :)

Thanks for clarification, Alan.

--
Best wishes,
Yuri K. Shatroff

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Re: KDE: unwanted dependencies

Michael Palimaka
On 13/09/2013 21:35, Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:

> On 13.09.2013 14:14, Alan McKinnon wrote:
>> On 13/09/2013 12:10, Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
>>> Hi people,
>>>
>>> I am about to update KDE from 4.10.4 to 4.11.1.
>>> Is it possible to avoid installing various nepomuks and akonadis which
>>
>> No
>
> Pity.
>
>>> appear to be required now? I have set USE=-semantic-desktop but it
>>> doesn't seem to help.
While the USE flag has disappeared, you could try putting nepomuk and
akonadi into your package.provided file.

>>> My current KDE installation is quite happy without that stuff (which
>>> also brings along tons of other crap).
>>
>>
>> The KDE maintainers posted quite extensively about this some time back.
>
> Some time back I heard that KDE devs were striving to make KDE more
> modular.
KDE upstream is, yes, and how this will affect semantic-desktop remains
to be seen.

>> It is too hard to try and extract semantic-desktop out of the KDE build
>> whilst not breaking everything else. What you now do is allow the stuff
>> to be built, and disable the function in System Settings.
>
> Well why wasn't it too hard before? It's not quite obvious why one's got
> to "extract" some additional functionality, as opposed to including it
> when needed. A strange approach, all in all.
The decision to remove the USE flag happened mostly because it maintain,
and was in general not well supported anyway.

There have been a number of proposals about the situation: do nothing,
do a full revert, or implement some compromise. I would hope that we
make a final decision about this before stabilising any 4.11 version.

> BTW, it seems that mysql is also a hard dependency for QT now. At least,
> the average joe can't be scorned any more for not having a "server". Hey
> to all localhost admins! :)
That shouldn't be the case. The default akonadi backend is mysql, why
could explain why it's being pulled in.



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Re: KDE: unwanted dependencies

Yuri K. Shatroff
On 13.09.2013 17:50, Michael Palimaka wrote:

> On 13/09/2013 21:35, Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
>> On 13.09.2013 14:14, Alan McKinnon wrote:
>>> On 13/09/2013 12:10, Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
>>>> Hi people,
>>>>
>>>> I am about to update KDE from 4.10.4 to 4.11.1.
>>>> Is it possible to avoid installing various nepomuks and akonadis which
>>>
>>> No
>>
>> Pity.
>>
>>>> appear to be required now? I have set USE=-semantic-desktop but it
>>>> doesn't seem to help.
> While the USE flag has disappeared, you could try putting nepomuk and
> akonadi into your package.provided file.
>
>>>> My current KDE installation is quite happy without that stuff (which
>>>> also brings along tons of other crap).
>>>
>>>
>>> The KDE maintainers posted quite extensively about this some time back.
>>
>> Some time back I heard that KDE devs were striving to make KDE more
>> modular.
> KDE upstream is, yes, and how this will affect semantic-desktop remains
> to be seen.

so there is hope? ;)

>>> It is too hard to try and extract semantic-desktop out of the KDE build
>>> whilst not breaking everything else. What you now do is allow the stuff
>>> to be built, and disable the function in System Settings.
>>
>> Well why wasn't it too hard before? It's not quite obvious why one's got
>> to "extract" some additional functionality, as opposed to including it
>> when needed. A strange approach, all in all.
> The decision to remove the USE flag happened mostly because it maintain,
> and was in general not well supported anyway.
>
> There have been a number of proposals about the situation: do nothing,
> do a full revert, or implement some compromise. I would hope that we
> make a final decision about this before stabilising any 4.11 version.

Clear, then I'll opt to wait for the stable 4.11.

>> BTW, it seems that mysql is also a hard dependency for QT now. At least,
>> the average joe can't be scorned any more for not having a "server". Hey
>> to all localhost admins! :)
> That shouldn't be the case. The default akonadi backend is mysql, why
> could explain why it's being pulled in.

Yes, really, I was mislead, it is qtsql which requires setting the mysql
flag, but I missed that it was due to akonadi.

Thank you for the detailed answer, Michael.
--
Best wishes,
Yuri K. Shatroff

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Re: KDE: unwanted dependencies

Paul Hartman-3
In reply to this post by Alan McKinnon-2
On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 5:14 AM, Alan McKinnon <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 13/09/2013 12:10, Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
>> Hi people,
>>
>> I am about to update KDE from 4.10.4 to 4.11.1.
>> Is it possible to avoid installing various nepomuks and akonadis which
>
> No
>
>
>> appear to be required now? I have set USE=-semantic-desktop but it
>> doesn't seem to help.
>> My current KDE installation is quite happy without that stuff (which
>> also brings along tons of other crap).
>
>
> The KDE maintainers posted quite extensively about this some time back.
>
> It is too hard to try and extract semantic-desktop out of the KDE build
> whilst not breaking everything else. What you now do is allow the stuff
> to be built, and disable the function in System Settings.
>
> What this in effect means is you spend an extra 20 minutes building and
> have a few more meg of disk space consumed by code than you never run.

There was a series of threads recently in the gentoo-desktop mailing
list about someone proposing an overlay for KDE minus the
semantic/nepomuk stuff. Search the archives for "kde-lean".

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Re: KDE: unwanted dependencies

Hinnerk van Bruinehsen-2
In reply to this post by Yuri K. Shatroff
On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 06:04:09PM +0400, Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:

> On 13.09.2013 17:50, Michael Palimaka wrote:
> > On 13/09/2013 21:35, Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
> >> On 13.09.2013 14:14, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> >>> On 13/09/2013 12:10, Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
> >>>> Hi people,
> >>>>
> >>>> I am about to update KDE from 4.10.4 to 4.11.1.
> >>>> Is it possible to avoid installing various nepomuks and akonadis which
> >>>
> >>> No
> >>
> >> Pity.
> >>
> >>>> appear to be required now? I have set USE=-semantic-desktop but it
> >>>> doesn't seem to help.
> > While the USE flag has disappeared, you could try putting nepomuk and
> > akonadi into your package.provided file.
> >
> >>>> My current KDE installation is quite happy without that stuff (which
> >>>> also brings along tons of other crap).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The KDE maintainers posted quite extensively about this some time back.
> >>
> >> Some time back I heard that KDE devs were striving to make KDE more
> >> modular.
> > KDE upstream is, yes, and how this will affect semantic-desktop remains
> > to be seen.
>
> so there is hope? ;)
>
> >>> It is too hard to try and extract semantic-desktop out of the KDE build
> >>> whilst not breaking everything else. What you now do is allow the stuff
> >>> to be built, and disable the function in System Settings.
> >>
> >> Well why wasn't it too hard before? It's not quite obvious why one's got
> >> to "extract" some additional functionality, as opposed to including it
> >> when needed. A strange approach, all in all.
> > The decision to remove the USE flag happened mostly because it maintain,
> > and was in general not well supported anyway.
> >
> > There have been a number of proposals about the situation: do nothing,
> > do a full revert, or implement some compromise. I would hope that we
> > make a final decision about this before stabilising any 4.11 version.
>
> Clear, then I'll opt to wait for the stable 4.11.
>
> >> BTW, it seems that mysql is also a hard dependency for QT now. At least,
> >> the average joe can't be scorned any more for not having a "server". Hey
> >> to all localhost admins! :)
> > That shouldn't be the case. The default akonadi backend is mysql, why
> > could explain why it's being pulled in.
>
> Yes, really, I was mislead, it is qtsql which requires setting the mysql
> flag, but I missed that it was due to akonadi.
IIRC you can substitute mysql with sqlite by changing useflags. mysql seems the
be the default though...

WKR
Hinnerk

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Re: KDE: unwanted dependencies

Mick-10
On Friday 13 Sep 2013 16:57:39 Hinnerk van Bruinehsen wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 06:04:09PM +0400, Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
> > On 13.09.2013 17:50, Michael Palimaka wrote:
> > > On 13/09/2013 21:35, Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:

> > >> BTW, it seems that mysql is also a hard dependency for QT now. At
> > >> least, the average joe can't be scorned any more for not having a
> > >> "server". Hey to all localhost admins! :)
> > >
> > > That shouldn't be the case. The default akonadi backend is mysql, why
> > > could explain why it's being pulled in.
> >
> > Yes, really, I was mislead, it is qtsql which requires setting the mysql
> > flag, but I missed that it was due to akonadi.
>
> IIRC you can substitute mysql with sqlite by changing useflags. mysql seems
> the be the default though...
>
> WKR
> Hinnerk
As far as I know sqlite is not going to be an option in the future - mysql was
going to become a hard dependency for KDE.  I hope to be wrong on this, but
that's what I recall reading in some KDE devs post.

--
Regards,
Mick

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