Naming of repositories: gento-x86 edition, bike shedding wanted

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Naming of repositories: gento-x86 edition, bike shedding wanted

Robin H. Johnson-2
This is a mostly inconsequential issue, but the Git migration provides
us a chance to make a clean break...

The repository of our ebuilds and the name of the CVS module have been
called gentoo-x86 since the start of Gentoo, because it originally was
only for x86. Here's the very first ebuild added to CVS [1], Portage
v1.1 is also early on [2].

On the rsync side, it was originally called gentoo-x86-portage, and then
between the 1.2 and 1.4 release (early 2003), the stages switched to
using the name 'gentoo-portage'; as recently as 2010, various mirrors
were STILL fetching from the name of gentoo-x86-portage, when we
reminded them that they should have switched years ago.

All of these names have caused some confusion. Trying to explain to a
new user that the Portage tree refers to the collection of ebuilds used
by a PMS-compliant package manager (eg Portage) is problematic.

To that end, I'd like us to brainstorm names for the new
bikeshed^R^R^R^R^R^R^R^R
repository, to go live at the time of the Git migration.

It will be the single tree that contains what you find today in the
gentoo-x86 CVS module; and on rsync as gentoo-x86-portage and
gentoo-portage.

Ideally, it should be something that works as a relatively unique
identifier (Portage is bad as it refers to both the package manager and
the tree), and fits easily into discussions, both in-person and online.

Questions:
0. What names for the tree/repository.
1. We have some namespaces in Git: proj, dev, priv, data, sites, exp; should
   the tree be in one of those namespaces, a new namespace, or be without
   a namespace? git://anongit.gentoo.org/NEW-NAME.git.

[1] http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/net-mail/mutt/mutt-1.2.5-1.ebuild?hideattic=0&revision=1.1&view=markup&sortby=date
[2] http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/sys-apps/portage/files/ebuild?hideattic=0&revision=1.1&view=markup&sortby=date#l1051

--
Robin Hugh Johnson
Gentoo Linux: Developer, Infrastructure Lead
E-Mail     : [hidden email]
GnuPG FP   : 11ACBA4F 4778E3F6 E4EDF38E B27B944E 34884E85

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Re: Naming of repositories: gento-x86 edition, bike shedding wanted

Andreas K. Huettel
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imho,

> Questions:
> 0. What names for the tree/repository.

"gentoo"
(it's also the repo_name)

"portage" doesn't make sense, everything else is too long or potentially
confusing...

> 1. We have some namespaces in Git: proj, dev, priv, data, sites, exp;
> should the tree be in one of those namespaces, a new namespace, or be
> without a namespace? git://anongit.gentoo.org/NEW-NAME.git.

proj/gentoo would be fine for me (with the same logic as in the wiki that
"Gentoo" is the "main project")

alternatively a separate namespace, but how to name it?

cheers, andreas

- --

Andreas K. Huettel
Gentoo Linux developer
[hidden email]
http://www.akhuettel.de/

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Re: Naming of repositories: gento-x86 edition, bike shedding wanted

Rich Freeman
In reply to this post by Robin H. Johnson-2
On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 6:25 PM, Robin H. Johnson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> 0. What names for the tree/repository.

Suggestions:
gentoo-repo
gentoo-repository
gentoo-main
gentoo-repo-main
gentoo-repository-main

> 1. We have some namespaces in Git: proj, dev, priv, data, sites, exp; should
>    the tree be in one of those namespaces, a new namespace, or be without
>    a namespace? git://anongit.gentoo.org/NEW-NAME.git.
>

I'd suggest creating a repository(-ies) namespace (or maybe call it
repo(s)), since conceivably we might have more than one at some point,
overlays might end up in there at some point, etc.

--
Rich

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Re: Naming of repositories: gento-x86 edition, bike shedding wanted

Kristian Fiskerstrand-2
In reply to this post by Andreas K. Huettel
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On 03/14/2015 11:34 PM, Andreas K. Huettel wrote:

> imho,
>
>> Questions: 0. What names for the tree/repository.
>
> "gentoo" (it's also the repo_name)
>
> "portage" doesn't make sense, everything else is too long or
> potentially confusing...
>
>> 1. We have some namespaces in Git: proj, dev, priv, data, sites,
>> exp; should the tree be in one of those namespaces, a new
>> namespace, or be without a namespace?
>> git://anongit.gentoo.org/NEW-NAME.git.
>
> proj/gentoo would be fine for me (with the same logic as in the
> wiki that "Gentoo" is the "main project")

Personally I would find this a bit confusing so I'd prefer a separate
namespace or no namespace, if going for a separate namespace it might
allow for sub-trees down the road, etc...

>
> alternatively a separate namespace, but how to name it?

maybe "repos" or "tree"?

- --
Kristian Fiskerstrand
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Re: Naming of repositories: gento-x86 edition, bike shedding wanted

Kent Fredric
In reply to this post by Rich Freeman

On 15 March 2015 at 11:37, Rich Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote:
Suggestions:
gentoo-repo
gentoo-repository
gentoo-main
gentoo-repo-main
gentoo-repository-main

Similarly in the "solve confusion as to purpose" for newbies:

gentoo-packages
gentoo-ebuilds


The names would be possibly be incorrect under some interpretations, but they'd be clearer to newbies what its for.

You could consider a repository to be "A collection of packages", and all files that are not packages to be metadata.
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Re: Naming of repositories: gento-x86 edition, bike shedding wanted

Andreas K. Huettel
In reply to this post by Kristian Fiskerstrand-2
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> > proj/gentoo would be fine for me (with the same logic as in the
> > wiki that "Gentoo" is the "main project")
>
> Personally I would find this a bit confusing so I'd prefer a separate
> namespace or no namespace, if going for a separate namespace it might
> allow for sub-trees down the road, etc...

Correct, sorry, I completely over-read that.

No namespace, top level would really be best. We only have one main tree!!!

- --

Andreas K. Huettel
Gentoo Linux developer
[hidden email]
http://www.akhuettel.de/

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Re: Naming of repositories: gento-x86 edition, bike shedding wanted

Manuel Rüger
In reply to this post by Rich Freeman
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On 14.03.2015 23:37, Rich Freeman wrote:

> On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 6:25 PM, Robin H. Johnson
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> 0. What names for the tree/repository.
>
> Suggestions: gentoo-repo gentoo-repository gentoo-main
> gentoo-repo-main gentoo-repository-main
>
>> 1. We have some namespaces in Git: proj, dev, priv, data, sites,
>> exp; should the tree be in one of those namespaces, a new
>> namespace, or be without a namespace?
>> git://anongit.gentoo.org/NEW-NAME.git.
>>
>
> I'd suggest creating a repository(-ies) namespace (or maybe call
> it repo(s)), since conceivably we might have more than one at some
> point, overlays might end up in there at some point, etc.
>

iirc most deb and rpm based distributions use "main" for their central
repository, so +1 for gentoo-main.

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Re: Naming of repositories: gento-x86 edition, bike shedding wanted

Peter Stuge-4
Andreas K. Huettel wrote:
> > 0. What names for the tree/repository.
>
> "gentoo"

IMO this is the only really accurate name.

> (it's also the repo_name)

There you go. It already has the name gentoo. :)


> "portage" doesn't make sense, everything else is too long or
> potentially confusing...

Yes indeed.


Rich Freeman wrote:
> > 0. What names for the tree/repository.
>
> Suggestions:
> gentoo-repo
> gentoo-repository
> gentoo-main
> gentoo-repo-main
> gentoo-repository-main

These are all terribly long and fairly redundant.


> > 1. We have some namespaces in Git: proj, dev, priv, data, sites, exp; should
> > the tree be in one of those namespaces, a new namespace, or be without
> > a namespace? git://anongit.gentoo.org/NEW-NAME.git.
>
> I'd suggest creating a repository(-ies) namespace (or maybe call it
> repo(s)), since conceivably we might have more than one at some point,
> overlays might end up in there at some point, etc.

This is a good point. repos/gentoo.git or maybe ebuilds/gentoo.git


Kent Fredric wrote:
> Similarly in the "solve confusion as to purpose" for newbies:

Please be careful to avoid creating "simple" names for things which
are actually more complicated than a "simple" name can express
accurately. That only creates even more confusion. Names need to
be accurate and short. It's very difficult to find the right ones and
it is an important matter.


> gentoo-packages

No way, packages in Gentoo are .tbz2 files, not .ebuild files. Other
distributions already confuse the naming of their packages with the
files used to create the packages. Gentoo does not need to be that
stupid.


> gentoo-ebuilds

An ebuilds namespace may not be such a bad idea, especially if later
on there will be more ebuild repos next to the gentoo one.


Manuel Rüger wrote:
> iirc most deb and rpm based distributions use "main" for their central
> repository, so +1 for gentoo-main.

Gentoo is significantly different from simple binary distributions -
let's not create unneccessary problems by copying their sillyness.


Thanks

//Peter

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Re: Naming of repositories: gento-x86 edition, bike shedding wanted

Jason A. Donenfeld-3
ebuilds/gentoo.git

or

ebuilds/gentoo-main.git


Namespacing things in ebuilds/ might be convenient in the future if we pursue other types of official ebuild repositories.

Calling it "gentoo" makes sense, because the entire tree is what makes gentoo. But since it's namespaced in ebuilds/ and because ebuilds/ might have other gentoo-official repos too, then perhaps "gentoo-main" makes more sense.
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Re: Naming of repositories: gento-x86 edition, bike shedding wanted

Peter Stuge-4
Jason A. Donenfeld wrote:
> Calling it "gentoo" makes sense, because the entire tree is what makes
> gentoo.

Exactly. And the repo already has this name set in repo_name.


> But since it's namespaced in ebuilds/ and because ebuilds/
> might have other gentoo-official repos too, then perhaps "gentoo-main"
> makes more sense.

If ebuilds/ only has gentoo-official repos then leading "gentoo-" is
repetitive and redundant, and unlike "gentoo" simply "main" is a
horrible name.


//Peter

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Re: Naming of repositories: gento-x86 edition, bike shedding wanted

Ben de Groot-2
In reply to this post by Andreas K. Huettel
On 15 March 2015 at 06:34, Andreas K. Huettel <[hidden email]> wrote:
> imho,
>
>> Questions:
>> 0. What names for the tree/repository.
>
> "gentoo"
> (it's also the repo_name)

Our repo is already named "gentoo", so this makes the most sense.

But I wouldn't mind "gentoo-main" either. But then we should also
change the repo_name.

While we are at it, can we change the default location from
/usr/portage to something like /var/repos/${repo_name} then?

--
Cheers,

Ben | yngwin
Gentoo developer

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Re: Naming of repositories: gento-x86 edition, bike shedding wanted

Rich Freeman
In reply to this post by Jason A. Donenfeld-3
On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 9:44 PM, Jason A. Donenfeld <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Calling it "gentoo" makes sense, because the entire tree is what makes
> gentoo. But since it's namespaced in ebuilds/ and because ebuilds/ might
> have other gentoo-official repos too, then perhaps "gentoo-main" makes more
> sense.

The thing is, Gentoo is more than a bunch of ebuilds.  Certainly
they're a HUGE part of Gentoo, but they alone aren't Gentoo.

In some sense you could have ebuilds/gentoo.git but then what happens
when you clone ebuilds/gentoo.git, website/gentoo.git, and so on?
Namespaces are useful to prevent accidental collisions, and for
organization, but without getting too crazy with the names I think it
is best off when the final name stands on its own reasonably well.

It doesn't have to be gentoo-main, but I would prefer to see it not
just be "Gentoo."

--
Rich

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Re: Naming of repositories: gento-x86 edition, bike shedding wanted

Brian Dolbec-3
In reply to this post by Ben de Groot-2
On Sun, 15 Mar 2015 10:04:55 +0800
Ben de Groot <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 15 March 2015 at 06:34, Andreas K. Huettel <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > imho,
> >
> >> Questions:
> >> 0. What names for the tree/repository.
> >
> > "gentoo"
> > (it's also the repo_name)
>
> Our repo is already named "gentoo", so this makes the most sense.
>
> But I wouldn't mind "gentoo-main" either. But then we should also
> change the repo_name.
>
> While we are at it, can we change the default location from
> /usr/portage to something like /var/repos/${repo_name} then?
>

The hold up for that was catalyst which had /usr/portage hardcoded all
over the place.  Not only that, but the hard-coded path was also used
as both a variable name and path at the same time. :(

I have nearly all the 3.0 rewrite branch merged into master finally.
I'll begin some testing again soon to make sure it works properly with
the "gentoo" repo relocated.  It shouldn't be long to have a new
release based on the 3.0 re-write making stages for release.

--
Brian Dolbec <dolsen>


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Re: Naming of repositories: gento-x86 edition, bike shedding wanted

Peter Stuge-4
In reply to this post by Rich Freeman
Rich Freeman wrote:
> > Calling it "gentoo" makes sense
>
> The thing is, Gentoo is more than a bunch of ebuilds.

Sure, but the gentoo ebuild repo is just a bunch of ebuilds.

Gentoo as name can and should be used elsewhere too of course.

> Certainly they're a HUGE part of Gentoo, but they alone aren't Gentoo.

> In some sense you could have ebuilds/gentoo.git but then what happens
> when you clone ebuilds/gentoo.git, website/gentoo.git, and so on?

Keep them in different subdirectories, to reflect the central
namespace?


> Namespaces are useful to prevent accidental collisions, and for
> organization, but without getting too crazy with the names I think it
> is best off when the final name stands on its own reasonably well.

Always optimize for the common case. What changes more often,
ebuilds/ or website/ ? That repo gets to use the pretty name,
the other repo gets an uglier one, maybe "website/website.git". :)


//Peter

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Re: Naming of repositories: gento-x86 edition, bike shedding wanted

Matt Turner-5
In reply to this post by Peter Stuge-4
On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 5:56 PM, Peter Stuge <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Andreas K. Huettel wrote:
>> > 0. What names for the tree/repository.
>>
>> "gentoo"
>
> IMO this is the only really accurate name.

I completely agree (with everything else in this email as well).

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Re: Naming of repositories: gento-x86 edition, bike shedding wanted

Marc Schiffbauer
In reply to this post by Andreas K. Huettel
* Andreas K. Huettel schrieb am 14.03.15 um 23:34 Uhr:

>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA512
>
>imho,
>
>> Questions:
>> 0. What names for the tree/repository.
>
>"gentoo"
>(it's also the repo_name)
+1

My furst idea, too.


>

--
0x35A64134 - 8AAC 5F46 83B4 DB70 8317
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Re: Naming of repositories: gento-x86 edition, bike shedding wanted

Michał Górny-5
In reply to this post by Robin H. Johnson-2
Dnia 2015-03-14, o godz. 22:25:56
"Robin H. Johnson" <[hidden email]> napisał(a):

> This is a mostly inconsequential issue, but the Git migration provides
> us a chance to make a clean break...
>
> The repository of our ebuilds and the name of the CVS module have been
> called gentoo-x86 since the start of Gentoo, because it originally was
> only for x86. Here's the very first ebuild added to CVS [1], Portage
> v1.1 is also early on [2].
>
> On the rsync side, it was originally called gentoo-x86-portage, and then
> between the 1.2 and 1.4 release (early 2003), the stages switched to
> using the name 'gentoo-portage'; as recently as 2010, various mirrors
> were STILL fetching from the name of gentoo-x86-portage, when we
> reminded them that they should have switched years ago.
>
> All of these names have caused some confusion. Trying to explain to a
> new user that the Portage tree refers to the collection of ebuilds used
> by a PMS-compliant package manager (eg Portage) is problematic.
>
> To that end, I'd like us to brainstorm names for the new
> bikeshed^R^R^R^R^R^R^R^R
> repository, to go live at the time of the Git migration.
>
> It will be the single tree that contains what you find today in the
> gentoo-x86 CVS module; and on rsync as gentoo-x86-portage and
> gentoo-portage.
>
> Ideally, it should be something that works as a relatively unique
> identifier (Portage is bad as it refers to both the package manager and
> the tree), and fits easily into discussions, both in-person and online.
>
> Questions:
> 0. What names for the tree/repository.
> 1. We have some namespaces in Git: proj, dev, priv, data, sites, exp; should
>    the tree be in one of those namespaces, a new namespace, or be without
>    a namespace? git://anongit.gentoo.org/NEW-NAME.git.
The name simply must be 'gentoo'. If you think it's easy to change
repo_name, think again. That name is hardcoded in a lot of random
places (like Portage configuration, databases), and it is used by some
external tools as a replacement of deprecated PORTDIR. Not to mention
all overlays.

Instead of trying to emphasize it's the main repository, we ought to
drop the notion of 'main repository'. That was the goal of all changes
in Portage, so stop trying to regress for the sake of good ol' times.

As for the namespace, proj/ makes most sense of the current namespaces.
If we want a separate repo/ namespace, we would probably need to
consider moving other repositories there -- at least the official ones.
Of course, it would be a nice result, having everything hosted
on git.g.o as git.g.o/repo/${repo_name}.git.
--
Best regards,
Michał Górny

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Re: Naming of repositories: gento-x86 edition, bike shedding wanted

Dirkjan Ochtman-3
In reply to this post by Marc Schiffbauer
"gentoo" makes a lot of sense to me. "gentoo-main" works, as well.

Anything with "ebuilds" doesn't make as much as sense to me, since it
also contains profiles, eclasses, etc. In that vain, "gentoo-base"
could also work?

I don't really get the need for this whole namespacing thing, so I'd
prefer to do without that.

Cheers,

Dirkjan

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Re: Naming of repositories: gento-x86 edition, bike shedding wanted

Ulrich Mueller-2
In reply to this post by Andreas K. Huettel
>>>>> On Sat, 14 Mar 2015, Andreas K Huettel wrote:

>> Questions: 0. What names for the tree/repository.

> "gentoo" (it's also the repo_name)

> "portage" doesn't make sense, everything else is too long or
> potentially confusing...

Definitely, it should be "gentoo". Without "portage", "x86", or any
other suffixes.

>> 1. We have some namespaces in Git: proj, dev, priv, data, sites,
>> exp; should the tree be in one of those namespaces, a new
>> namespace, or be without a namespace?
>> git://anongit.gentoo.org/NEW-NAME.git.

Keep it at top level, without a namespace. This will also result in
the shortest URI.

> proj/gentoo would be fine for me (with the same logic as in the wiki
> that "Gentoo" is the "main project")

We shouldn't base our decisions on technical limitations of the wiki.
"Gentoo" is not a project in the sense of GLEP 39.

Ulrich

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Re: Naming of repositories: gento-x86 edition, bike shedding wanted

Diego Elio Pettenò-2
In reply to this post by Manuel Rüger
On 14 March 2015 at 23:30, Manuel Rüger <[hidden email]> wrote:
> iirc most deb and rpm based distributions use "main" for their central
> repository, so +1 for gentoo-main.

Add me for gentoo-main too.

Diego Elio Pettenò — Flameeyes
https://blog.flameeyes.eu/

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