Packages up for grabs

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Packages up for grabs

Pacho Ramos
This packages are now up for grabs:
dev-libs/libmongo-client

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Re: Packages up for grabs

Peter Stuge-4
Hi Pacho, many thanks for your work, but..

Pacho Ramos wrote:
Pacho Ramos wrote:
Pacho Ramos wrote:
Pacho Ramos wrote:
Pacho Ramos wrote:
Pacho Ramos wrote:
Pacho Ramos wrote:
Pacho Ramos wrote:
Pacho Ramos wrote:
Pacho Ramos wrote:
Pacho Ramos wrote:
Pacho Ramos wrote:
Pacho Ramos wrote:
Pacho Ramos wrote:
> Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2016 15:22:22 +0200

..do you think you can arrange to post everything in one mail,
instead of 14 different ones in a single day?


Thank you

//Peter

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Re: Packages up for grabs

Andrew Savchenko
On Sat, 6 Aug 2016 13:37:19 +0000 Peter Stuge wrote:

> Hi Pacho, many thanks for your work, but..
>
> Pacho Ramos wrote:
> Pacho Ramos wrote:
> Pacho Ramos wrote:
> Pacho Ramos wrote:
> Pacho Ramos wrote:
> Pacho Ramos wrote:
> Pacho Ramos wrote:
> Pacho Ramos wrote:
> Pacho Ramos wrote:
> Pacho Ramos wrote:
> Pacho Ramos wrote:
> Pacho Ramos wrote:
> Pacho Ramos wrote:
> Pacho Ramos wrote:
> > Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2016 15:22:22 +0200
>
> ..do you think you can arrange to post everything in one mail,
> instead of 14 different ones in a single day?
I suppose these posts are automated (at least partially), since each
of them is linked to a different retirement bug. So you shouldn't
blame Pacho for his work.

Best regards,
Andrew Savchenko

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Re: Packages up for grabs

Felix Janda
In reply to this post by Pacho Ramos
I'd like become a proxy-maintainer for app-editors/nvi.

--Felix

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Re: Packages up for grabs

Peter Stuge-4
In reply to this post by Andrew Savchenko
Andrew Savchenko wrote:
> On Sat, 6 Aug 2016 13:37:19 +0000 Peter Stuge wrote:
> > Hi Pacho, many thanks for your work, but..
..
> > ..do you think you can arrange to post everything in one mail,
> > instead of 14 different ones in a single day?
>
> I suppose these posts are automated (at least partially), since
> each of them is linked to a different retirement bug.

That would explain the many emails - then it will probably be halfway
straightforward to also bundle the bugs and send one email at say 2:00 am
or whenever is a likely time that Pacho is not doing retiring. :)


> So you shouldn't blame Pacho for his work.

I don't think I was - I wanted to nudge to improve the output of his work.

I like to follow what gets retired, in case I want to pick something up,
but I don't like to read 14 emails in one day with a few packages in each.


Another, maybe simpler, approach would be to have a stateless cronjob
instead of a queue, the job would just look at what retirement bugs
were changed (opened?) in the last while (day?), and send one email
listing all packages. Maybe it could also set some status in the bug,
to avoid duplicates because of DST or whatever.


Thanks a lot

//Peter

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Re: Packages up for grabs

Peter Stuge-4
In reply to this post by Felix Janda
Felix Janda wrote:
> I'd like become a proxy-maintainer for app-editors/nvi.

Sweet! If there are some open bugs then please upload patched ebuilds
and other neccessary files to the bugtracker, ideally as output by
git format-patch, and then talk e.g. to #gentoo-proxy-maint on freenode
to get someone to proxy them into the tree for you.

https://anongit.gentoo.org/git/repo/gentoo.git


//Peter

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Re: Packages up for grabs

Michał Górny-5
On Sat, 6 Aug 2016 16:04:08 +0000
Peter Stuge <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Felix Janda wrote:
> > I'd like become a proxy-maintainer for app-editors/nvi.  
>
> Sweet! If there are some open bugs then please upload patched ebuilds
> and other neccessary files to the bugtracker, ideally as output by
> git format-patch, and then talk e.g. to #gentoo-proxy-maint on freenode
> to get someone to proxy them into the tree for you.
>
> https://anongit.gentoo.org/git/repo/gentoo.git

Or file a pull request @ https://github.com/gentoo/gentoo/pulls. That's
the most convenient solution for most of proxy-maint team members.

--
Best regards,
Michał Górny
<http://dev.gentoo.org/~mgorny/>

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Re: Packages up for grabs

Peter Stuge-4
Michał Górny wrote:
> Or file a pull request @ https://github.com/gentoo/gentoo/pulls.
> That's the most convenient solution for most of proxy-maint team members.

How can I help improve that problematic situation?

It's not cool to gravitate the project towards GitHub Inc.


//Peter

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Re: Packages up for grabs

Rich Freeman
On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 3:28 PM, Peter Stuge <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Michał Górny wrote:
>> Or file a pull request @ https://github.com/gentoo/gentoo/pulls.
>> That's the most convenient solution for most of proxy-maint team members.
>
> How can I help improve that problematic situation?
>
> It's not cool to gravitate the project towards GitHub Inc.
>

I'm sure everybody would love to have a non-github alternative.  The
problem is that they all tend to be Java-based and infra doesn't want
to go near them (that isn't intended to imply anything other than the
state of things).

So, it sounds like we either need a non-Java-based alternative, or a
way to host Java applications.

--
Rich

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Re: Packages up for grabs

Michał Górny-5
On Sat, 6 Aug 2016 16:47:09 -0400
Rich Freeman <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 3:28 PM, Peter Stuge <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Michał Górny wrote:  
> >> Or file a pull request @ https://github.com/gentoo/gentoo/pulls.
> >> That's the most convenient solution for most of proxy-maint team members.  
> >
> > How can I help improve that problematic situation?
> >
> > It's not cool to gravitate the project towards GitHub Inc.
>
> I'm sure everybody would love to have a non-github alternative.  The
> problem is that they all tend to be Java-based and infra doesn't want
> to go near them (that isn't intended to imply anything other than the
> state of things).
>
> So, it sounds like we either need a non-Java-based alternative, or a
> way to host Java applications.
No. The problem is that alternatives suggested so far have been crap,
and people focused on preaching and/or implementing random crap-based
solutions without even stopping for a few minutes to consider what we
exactly need.

GitHub works for us. GitHub works for our contributors. GitHub boosts
our productivity, unlike those vain discussions. We don't have time for
all this tin foil hat nonsense.

--
Best regards,
Michał Górny
<http://dev.gentoo.org/~mgorny/>

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Re: Packages up for grabs

Peter Stuge-4
Peter Stuge wrote:
> How can I help improve ..?

Michał Górny wrote:
> people focused on preaching and/or implementing random crap-based
> solutions without even stopping for a few minutes to consider what
> we exactly need.

You could interpret my question as "what exactly do we need" ?


> GitHub works for us. GitHub works for our contributors. GitHub
> boosts our productivity, unlike those vain discussions.

Windows works for me. Windows works for my customers. Windows
boosts my business, unlike vain discussions about open source
and free software. ;) Maybe you get my point?


> We don't have time for all this tin foil hat nonsense.

I think we have all the time in the world, and I think it's important
for us to innovate also in this field if neccessary, as we have and
continue to do in other distro-development-related fields.


Thanks

//Peter

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Re: Packages up for grabs

Rich Freeman
In reply to this post by Michał Górny-5
On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 4:55 PM, Michał Górny <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> GitHub works for us. GitHub works for our contributors. GitHub boosts
> our productivity, unlike those vain discussions. We don't have time for
> all this tin foil hat nonsense.
>

Then just ignore it.  If somebody wants to work on an alternative,
nobody can stop them.  Nobody is suggesting putting the github
solution on hold in the interim.

--
Rich

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Re: Packages up for grabs

Kent Fredric-2
In reply to this post by Peter Stuge-4
On Sat, 6 Aug 2016 19:28:19 +0000
Peter Stuge <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Michał Górny wrote:
> > Or file a pull request @ https://github.com/gentoo/gentoo/pulls.
> > That's the most convenient solution for most of proxy-maint team
> > members.  
>
> How can I help improve that problematic situation?
>
> It's not cool to gravitate the project towards GitHub Inc.

I kinda think this missed the point.  ( Though I did entirely expect a
complaint when he suggested it )

One avenue for contribution without Github: Patches by bugzilla, was
stated.

That will work, and is not restricting anyones freedom. It may however,
restrict convenience. But not freedom.

As far as I'm concerned, the statement about Github was a "oh, yeah,
and if you want, Github works too, so if you find that more convenient,
so do we, go right ahead, but you ain't gotta".

Everyone is free to, and encouraged to, create better solutions.

But there's no force to use Github.

If Github dies tomorrow, Gentoo will not drop dead. The convenience
will be lost, but people will still be completely able to send queues
of patches via bugzilla, or email, in the event that web browsers all
spontaneously die and cease to be free by some dark voodoo magic.

`git format-patch` is after all optimised for that latter case somewhat.

Maybe we should look into an Email Based submission service, create a
gentoo mailing list exclusively for 3rd party (proxy-maint) mail patch
queues, optimised for receiving and vetting patch sequences.

You don't need some fancy Java wank for that.

Then all we'd need is some alternative implementation of
dev-perl/Gentoo-App-Pram that can read a local mbox, and select
emails/email threads containing patch series, apply them, push them,
and then auto-reply to the email with a confirmation.

And then people could continue to use Github for their
easy-fast-non-free-workflow, and they could use some email submission
thing for the slightly-less-easy-but-free-as-hell workflow.

And for extra fun, we could support non-patch-queue emails that
contained references to public arbitrary git repositories and
automatically configured itself to pick a patch series from it, like
this example [1]:

1: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/linux.kernel/w957vpu3PPU

I mean, What do the Linux Kernel use? It would be a shame if they were
happening to use the email based workflow like I suggested([2,3,4]), and
if only there was a Gentoo Staffer who knew how Linux Contributions
worked and had documented it (sarcasm: [5])

2: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/linux.kernel/w957vpu3PPU
3: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3960876
4: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/pull/17#issuecomment-5663780
5:
https://github.com/gregkh/kernel-tutorial/blob/master/walkthrough#L47-L52




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Re: Packages up for grabs

Michał Górny-5
In reply to this post by Peter Stuge-4
Dnia 6 sierpnia 2016 23:12:55 CEST, Peter Stuge <[hidden email]> napisał(a):
>Peter Stuge wrote:
>> How can I help improve ..?
>
>Michał Górny wrote:
>> people focused on preaching and/or implementing random crap-based
>> solutions without even stopping for a few minutes to consider what
>> we exactly need.
>
>You could interpret my question as "what exactly do we need" ?

If you really want to know...

For a start, something that would satisfy the performance, maintainability and security needs of infra. I haven't heard of anything like that, so you'll probably have to start a new project. I suggest high quality C/C++ since other languages are either completely unreliable, slow and/or designed to be a security nightmare.

Once again, bear performance in mind. Most of the existing tools can't handle big repos. It ain't productive when every small action takes 5 seconds.

Accessibility is also important, but without hurting convenience. Probably accessible web interface with optional ES booster and a reasonably stable API (i.e. not pybugz-style 'XMLRPC is not cool anymore, so we instantly kill all the API you ever used').

That's it for the generic requirements. Now for the specific workflow:

1. Preferably no custom registration. Some kind of SSO via Bugzilla, OpenID or GitHub would work. No additional passwords, thank you.

2. Ability to conveniently post branches for review. Git push is most preferable, but I guess we can live with mails if done sanely).

3. Ability to conveniently get branches for merging. Again, git pull is the best option here. No 'click and download this dozen patches'.

4. No need for remote merge. The thing's not going to push anything directly to git.g.o.

5. Fast review with per-line and general comments. Ability to hide threads as resolved. Lightweight so that people don't have to put multiple remarks in a single comments. Readable so it's easy to note remarks made by others.

6. Good support for updating commits. Preferably being able to reapply (move) comments as appropriate.

7. Some kind of nice assignment/CC system with notifications that covers all developers without explicit signup.

>> GitHub works for us. GitHub works for our contributors. GitHub
>> boosts our productivity, unlike those vain discussions.
>
>Windows works for me. Windows works for my customers. Windows
>boosts my business, unlike vain discussions about open source
>and free software. ;) Maybe you get my point?

Does Microsoft let you use Windows for free? But yes, I generally agree. I regularly use Windows to print after many hours wasted on trying to get printing working on Linux. Having to print three pages a month, my business is much happier with it.

>
>
>> We don't have time for all this tin foil hat nonsense.
>
>I think we have all the time in the world, and I think it's important
>for us to innovate also in this field if neccessary, as we have and
>continue to do in other distro-development-related fields.

Sure we do. In the meantime, nobody uses gentoo anymore because it still can't deal with accepting contributions and in the meantime the few last developers retired, and users long ago switched to the comparatively recent distribution of Debian stable.


--
Best regards,
Michał Górny (by phone)

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Re: Packages up for grabs

Consus
On 08:48 Sun 07 Aug, Michał Górny wrote:
> Sure we do. In the meantime, nobody uses gentoo anymore because it
> still can't deal with accepting contributions and in the meantime the
> few last developers retired, and users long ago switched to the
> comparatively recent distribution of Debian stable.

Finally the voice of reason.

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Re: Packages up for grabs

Pacho Ramos
In reply to this post by Andrew Savchenko
El sáb, 06-08-2016 a las 17:09 +0300, Andrew Savchenko escribió:

> On Sat, 6 Aug 2016 13:37:19 +0000 Peter Stuge wrote:
> >
> > Hi Pacho, many thanks for your work, but..
> >
> > Pacho Ramos wrote:
> > Pacho Ramos wrote:
> > Pacho Ramos wrote:
> > Pacho Ramos wrote:
> > Pacho Ramos wrote:
> > Pacho Ramos wrote:
> > Pacho Ramos wrote:
> > Pacho Ramos wrote:
> > Pacho Ramos wrote:
> > Pacho Ramos wrote:
> > Pacho Ramos wrote:
> > Pacho Ramos wrote:
> > Pacho Ramos wrote:
> > Pacho Ramos wrote:
> > >
> > > Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2016 15:22:22 +0200
> >
> > ..do you think you can arrange to post everything in one mail,
> > instead of 14 different ones in a single day?
>
> I suppose these posts are automated (at least partially), since each
> of them is linked to a different retirement bug. So you shouldn't
> blame Pacho for his work.
>
> Best regards,
> Andrew Savchenko

No, sadly all the work is manual... and that is the reason I do every
step per person, because as it takes lots of time, I want to finish one
person completely before either jumping to the next or going to do
other things. 

The reason is that I cannot predict if I will be able to handle all the
remaining cases or, maybe, I will need to do 3 today, 5 tomorrow...
maybe 10 in two months when I have time again. This way at least I let
people to start getting the packages as soon as I finish a person and
other can start to work as soon as possible on the bug reports without
needing to wait for me finishing all.

Then, it's a bit a consequence of the workflow (paradoxically, I have a
different workflow when treecleaning that ends up usually with me
sending a big mail with the packages I am able to hardmask on a day...
and some people complained because they wanted one mail per package
^_^)

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Re: Packages up for grabs

james-3
In reply to this post by Consus
On 08/07/2016 02:38 AM, Consus wrote:
> On 08:48 Sun 07 Aug, Michał Górny wrote:
>> Sure we do. In the meantime, nobody uses gentoo anymore because it
>> still can't deal with accepting contributions and in the meantime the
>> few last developers retired, and users long ago switched to the
>> comparatively recent distribution of Debian stable.
>
> Finally the voice of reason.

Reasonable?  Are you kidding?
<rolling on the floor with laughter, uncontrollably >

In this day and age, quick installs are the mantra, either for VMs or
containers or workstations, particularly for
application-specific-servers or a variety of security apparatus.
Although the 'handbook' is an excellent reference guide and noob-filter,
the simple fact of the matter is most (nix) professionals consider the
gentoo install system to be arcane and an incredible 'cost barrier to
entry'. THAT, the lack of a well thought out, smooth, quick/easy install
which is intentionally not  available, because it  is seen as a satanic
idea, is the 800 pound gorilla on why folks passionately avoid gentoo.....


As a team, we could have a simple default program for a simple default
disk format, and a variety of 'stage-4' images, maybe updated every 3
months, to get a gentoo system up, quickly. Not an anything you want it
to be, but a few, common choices. Perhaps a security apparatus, commonly
needed, built on the hardened project? (like a bridge or a firewall)?


Then index the noob questions received from  the jentoo-users ML,  into
the handbook or companion documents, in a hyperlinked FAQ. Folks could
then work the question/support board of jentoo-user before being
accepted into jproxy-maint.  JProxy-maint would then need to become a
collection of docs to read, a half dozen ebuilds to update and then
bang, junior-dev status where folks can work on non-critical parts of
the jentoo tree.  And there could be a 'bypass exam' that if you know
the basics of *nix and shell, you could jump straight into contributing
on jentoo. Or better yet:: (Fork the tree for the jproxy-maint and
junior-devs to run themselves. That fork could be limited to a few
security appliance(s) system, and an embedded jentoo system (rasp. pi)
and a firewall/bridge. Let them use java* codes, as that is what all the
universities are teaching and promoting. I agree with gentoo proper on
severely restricting java*,  on gentoo-proper, but that sort of thing is
killing gentoo and just appears to the open world as a filter mechanism
to keep out and go elsewhere, snoot. There are just too many exciting
and useful codes out there running java.


After 12 years of using gentoo, the gentoo install semantics, still are
abysmal, imho. I just fundamentally disagree with forcing folks to first
endure the handbook before getting any gentoo (working gentoo system)
gratification. That is why 'Debian/buntu' has market share over us. Here
is a very useful "canned" install that, if emulated, would give gentoo
reams of "kudos" or "atta-boys" should we publish (provide) something
like this.[1]

[1] http://blog.securityonion.net/


"Security Onion is a Linux distro for intrusion detection, network
security monitoring, and log management. It's based on Ubuntu and
contains Snort, Suricata, Bro, OSSEC, Sguil, Squert, ELSA, Xplico,
NetworkMiner, and many other security tools. The easy-to-use Setup
wizard allows you to build an army of distributed sensors for your
enterprise in minutes!"


We could even call it "jentoo", as it could be labeled to indicate it
is for junior developers to experiment, learn, grow and then become a
fleeting-gentoo-dev found @ gentoo-dev proper. And yes enjoy the latest
of from the (insecure) java world.


Restated:: the current (lack) of a slick, simple & quick install
semantic, is what's killing gentoo, if it is dying. What I run into are
reams of deeply accomplished technical folks that use gentoo regularly
and like the current filters that run off the less astute, imho. YMMV.
Most all other rolling distros have a much simpler installation
semantic, if not a variety of easy install options and ways to participate.

Perhaps a well defined OS model, where gentoo can run (secure) VMs or
containers from jentoo?   That would expand the model of usage and
encourage inclusion, provide a pathway to the ultimate gentoo-dev status
and encourage innovation (and failure) all in a secure model?

Heaven forbid that we put up a few dozen (unsupported) jentoo VMs,
container-images or stage-4 (specifically purposed) choices where
folks could only get support from jentoo-user. No sir, we cannot make
jentoo fun and enjoyable and quick (and sleazy) can we?


And yes allow java, the way it is available on most other distros...
The current process of requiring all the java codes to be broken down
into 100% discernable codes is a tremendous barrier. After all, most of
the codes that use that stuff, are full of holes anyway; that's the very
nature of open, fast, exciting new codes. They only become secure
after years of vetting (fuzzing) anyway. So make the host gentoo image
very secure and allow jentoo projects to be a VM, or container or such
construct, without all the hassles of gentoo proper. Let the purist
ensure that gentoo is secure and isolated and let the multitude play
with java, however they like (in a VM, or a container image or a stage-4).

You have to look at CoreOS and conclude that even folks with deep
expertise and deep pockets want an easy install (even roll-back) OS.



hth,
James






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Re: Packages up for grabs

Kent Fredric-2
On Sun, 7 Aug 2016 08:24:51 -0500
james <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> As a team, we could have a simple default program for a simple default
> disk format, and a variety of 'stage-4' images, maybe updated every 3
> months, to get a gentoo system up, quickly. Not an anything you want
> it to be, but a few, common choices. Perhaps a security apparatus,
> commonly needed, built on the hardened project? (like a bridge or a
> firewall)?

I for one miss the days where Stage-1 was the defacto install, and
Stage-3 was "For lazy people who just wanted to use something".

When we transitioned to making Stage 3 the default, it was like, heresy.

Stage 4? :)

I highly encourage people to randomly hurt themselves by attempting an
unsupported Stage 1 install, just to find what breaks.

> Let them use java* codes, as that is what all the universities are
> teaching and promoting. I agree
> with gentoo proper on severely restricting java*,  on gentoo-proper,
> but that sort of thing is killing gentoo and just appears to the open
> world as a filter mechanism to keep out and go elsewhere, snoot.
> There are just too many exciting and useful codes out there running
> java.

"All" ? Some. And the dominance and focus on Java is itself telling of
the quality and type of the education provider.

Some education providers may not touch Java at all, and focus
predominantly on C.

You can't satisfy everyone out of the box.


The rest of your response kinda rotates around a central axiom that
makes other Linux distributions effective, and "Easy":

The lack of choice, a tailored work flow, a target audience, and a
narrow focus on what the vendor delivers.

Gentoo is fundamentally unlike these things, because the Gentoo way has
always been first and foremost about *user choice* and *maximising user
choice*

The reality is a giant hunk of the world are *not interested in choice*

They want something that works and get out of their way.

That's why proprietary systems with deep, vertical architecture and
product lock-in are still incredibly popular.

They understand their market, and they focus on making things work for
that market by tailoring it to a very narrow set of features that
satisfies 95% of its target.

Gentoo's target audience is decidedly that other 5%, the group of
people who don't mind getting their hands dirty, the group who wade up
to their elbows dealing with horrible problems because that's the
consequence of the power of choice.

You can promote pre-boxed Gentoo products if you want, I just think
you're barking up the wrong tree if you think doing that will help
anybody.

As with most open source, it requires volunteer effort to make this
happen, and its a hard sell to try to convince existing staff to spend
more time on producing a thing that exists only to *reduce* user choice
for the sake of convenience.

And I just think most of our devs have more interesting problems to
solve than that, and you'd be simply weakening the core Gentoo
development team by trying to steal existing Gentoo staff to engineer
this carefully designed and polished "Just Works For Noobs" platform.

And even then, I think if you did OK, it would be striving for the
wrong thing.

If you're going to come to a competition that has existing major
players ( such as the "noob friendly" linux desktop market ), you have
to not be simply a "me too!" in order to hope for success.

You have to have something unique that blows all the competition out of
the water in at least one way, that capitalises on an un-tapped need.

Anything else will just be some pathetic copy-cat attempt.

And for Gentoo, our "Unique Edge" *is* our configurability, our
incredibly effective and convenient flexibility.

Sacrificing our primary benefit to chase after some other market
half-assedly ... I can't see that panning out well myself.

Personally, I think we need to double down on what we're good at,
flexibility, and configurability.

Find ways of building systems at the users behest that do exactly what
they want easily, and not assume we know what is best for our users.

Anything else and Gentoo will go in the direction of the sad sorry
state of the Linux Desktop, where neither GTK/Gnome or QT/KDE are very
useable anymore, and they've become encumbered with horribly lethargic
and bloated design, because they were all trying too hard to chase what
they thought people wanted, the standard established by Windows and OSX
for "Easy".




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Re: Packages up for grabs

Alan McKinnon-2
On 07/08/2016 15:32, Kent Fredric wrote:

>> Let them use java* codes, as that is what all the universities are
>> > teaching and promoting. I agree
>> > with gentoo proper on severely restricting java*,  on gentoo-proper,
>> > but that sort of thing is killing gentoo and just appears to the open
>> > world as a filter mechanism to keep out and go elsewhere, snoot.
>> > There are just too many exciting and useful codes out there running
>> > java.
> "All" ? Some. And the dominance and focus on Java is itself telling of
> the quality and type of the education provider.
>
> Some education providers may not touch Java at all, and focus
> predominantly on C.
>
> You can't satisfy everyone out of the box.
>


I have no idea where James gets his information from, but I suspect it's
a niche market where uni students do "clustering" - whatever that is.

The interesting apps out there are mostly running python, go and
(sometimes) lua. And that's what I observe in my day job -
business/mobile ISP.

--
Alan McKinnon
[hidden email]


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Re: Packages up for grabs

Consus
In reply to this post by james-3
On 08:24 Sun 07 Aug, james wrote:

> On 08/07/2016 02:38 AM, Consus wrote:
> > On 08:48 Sun 07 Aug, Michał Górny wrote:
> > > Sure we do. In the meantime, nobody uses gentoo anymore because it
> > > still can't deal with accepting contributions and in the meantime the
> > > few last developers retired, and users long ago switched to the
> > > comparatively recent distribution of Debian stable.
> >
> > Finally the voice of reason.
>
> Reasonable?  Are you kidding?
> <rolling on the floor with laughter, uncontrollably >
>
> In this day and age, quick installs are the mantra, either for VMs or
> containers or workstations, particularly for application-specific-servers or
> a variety of security apparatus. Although the 'handbook' is an excellent
> reference guide and noob-filter, the simple fact of the matter is most (nix)
> professionals consider the gentoo install system to be arcane and an
> incredible 'cost barrier to entry'. THAT, the lack of a well thought out,
> smooth, quick/easy install which is intentionally not  available, because it
> is seen as a satanic idea, is the 800 pound gorilla on why folks
> passionately avoid gentoo.....

Err... On that one I agree. How the hell does it change the fact that
GitHub improved contributions?

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