PowerPC Resources at OSU

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PowerPC Resources at OSU

R0b0t1
Hello,

(This will be almost a duplicate on the PPC list, but now having more
information I am sending it to the BSD list as well.)

I apologize in advance if I did anything improper. I misunderstood
desultory when I asked him what to do earlier. Originally I was
unwilling to try to associate myself with Gentoo for the purpose of
this request but I wasn't referred to anyone who could fill out the
form "for" me.

Having requested OpenPOWER hosting from OSUOSL on Gentoo's behalf, I
was informed that hosting is already provided to the project.
Consequently I have two questions:

1) May I have access to a/the POWER server, or some other suitable
POWER resource? If not,
2) is anyone available to verify that I am associated with the project
or that I will use the resources for project related work?


For any comment to OSU, such as to request closure of the ticket or
that they go ahead with allocating the VM, please comment and I will
forward the support ticket to you.


My intent is to experiment with the PowerPC architecture, specifically
features found on newer POWER processors and servers. It is unlikely I
will ever get to do this on my own as the machines run $10k-$30k. I
requested services from OSU because GCC was not able to accommodate my
request for hypervisor access on their system.

However, having finally found the resources I've been looking for this
whole time, it looks like OSU's nodes are virtualized and won't be
able to do exactly what I want anyway (i.e. the GCC sysadmin was
misinformed), so I may have accidentally wasted people's time and
potentially tarnished Gentoo's reputation. I will make amends as best
I can.

IBM is willing to fund a node for my use and OSU is willing to deploy
it pending contact from Gentoo leadership. If there is a machine that
already exists that I would not disrupt, I would have no problems
working on existing resources instead if that seems reasonable. The
GCC server(s) are probably adequate, however I am having lots of
problems setting up a prefix on those systems because they use CentOS.
I am trying to fix bugs as best as I am able but it is starting to
look hopeless.

Excess resources on the donated OSU OpenPOWER machine could be offered
to other developers or used to run a Tinderbox. It may be a good idea
to do those things on the already existing machine(s).

Respectfully,
     R0b0t1

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Re: PowerPC Resources at OSU

R0b0t1
On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 11:29 PM, R0b0t1 <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> (This will be almost a duplicate on the PPC list, but now having more
> information I am sending it to the BSD list as well.)
>
> I apologize in advance if I did anything improper. I misunderstood
> desultory when I asked him what to do earlier. Originally I was
> unwilling to try to associate myself with Gentoo for the purpose of
> this request but I wasn't referred to anyone who could fill out the
> form "for" me.
>
> Having requested OpenPOWER hosting from OSUOSL on Gentoo's behalf, I
> was informed that hosting is already provided to the project.
> Consequently I have two questions:
>
> 1) May I have access to a/the POWER server, or some other suitable
> POWER resource? If not,
> 2) is anyone available to verify that I am associated with the project
> or that I will use the resources for project related work?
>
>
> For any comment to OSU, such as to request closure of the ticket or
> that they go ahead with allocating the VM, please comment and I will
> forward the support ticket to you.
>
>
> My intent is to experiment with the PowerPC architecture, specifically
> features found on newer POWER processors and servers. It is unlikely I
> will ever get to do this on my own as the machines run $10k-$30k. I
> requested services from OSU because GCC was not able to accommodate my
> request for hypervisor access on their system.
>
> However, having finally found the resources I've been looking for this
> whole time, it looks like OSU's nodes are virtualized and won't be
> able to do exactly what I want anyway (i.e. the GCC sysadmin was
> misinformed), so I may have accidentally wasted people's time and
> potentially tarnished Gentoo's reputation. I will make amends as best
> I can.
>
> IBM is willing to fund a node for my use and OSU is willing to deploy
> it pending contact from Gentoo leadership. If there is a machine that
> already exists that I would not disrupt, I would have no problems
> working on existing resources instead if that seems reasonable. The
> GCC server(s) are probably adequate, however I am having lots of
> problems setting up a prefix on those systems because they use CentOS.
> I am trying to fix bugs as best as I am able but it is starting to
> look hopeless.
>
> Excess resources on the donated OSU OpenPOWER machine could be offered
> to other developers or used to run a Tinderbox. It may be a good idea
> to do those things on the already existing machine(s).
>
> Respectfully,
>      R0b0t1

I am in no great hurry to get things moving and don't mind being told
"no," but at a certain point I feel like I will have to tell OSU that
I couldn't figure out who controls their current donation.

Respectfully,
     R0b0t1

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Re: PowerPC Resources at OSU

Matthew Thode (prometheanfire)
On 17-09-12 10:44:42, R0b0t1 wrote:

> On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 11:29 PM, R0b0t1 <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > (This will be almost a duplicate on the PPC list, but now having more
> > information I am sending it to the BSD list as well.)
> >
> > I apologize in advance if I did anything improper. I misunderstood
> > desultory when I asked him what to do earlier. Originally I was
> > unwilling to try to associate myself with Gentoo for the purpose of
> > this request but I wasn't referred to anyone who could fill out the
> > form "for" me.
> >
> > Having requested OpenPOWER hosting from OSUOSL on Gentoo's behalf, I
> > was informed that hosting is already provided to the project.
> > Consequently I have two questions:
> >
> > 1) May I have access to a/the POWER server, or some other suitable
> > POWER resource? If not,
> > 2) is anyone available to verify that I am associated with the project
> > or that I will use the resources for project related work?
> >
> >
> > For any comment to OSU, such as to request closure of the ticket or
> > that they go ahead with allocating the VM, please comment and I will
> > forward the support ticket to you.
> >
> >
> > My intent is to experiment with the PowerPC architecture, specifically
> > features found on newer POWER processors and servers. It is unlikely I
> > will ever get to do this on my own as the machines run $10k-$30k. I
> > requested services from OSU because GCC was not able to accommodate my
> > request for hypervisor access on their system.
> >
> > However, having finally found the resources I've been looking for this
> > whole time, it looks like OSU's nodes are virtualized and won't be
> > able to do exactly what I want anyway (i.e. the GCC sysadmin was
> > misinformed), so I may have accidentally wasted people's time and
> > potentially tarnished Gentoo's reputation. I will make amends as best
> > I can.
> >
> > IBM is willing to fund a node for my use and OSU is willing to deploy
> > it pending contact from Gentoo leadership. If there is a machine that
> > already exists that I would not disrupt, I would have no problems
> > working on existing resources instead if that seems reasonable. The
> > GCC server(s) are probably adequate, however I am having lots of
> > problems setting up a prefix on those systems because they use CentOS.
> > I am trying to fix bugs as best as I am able but it is starting to
> > look hopeless.
> >
> > Excess resources on the donated OSU OpenPOWER machine could be offered
> > to other developers or used to run a Tinderbox. It may be a good idea
> > to do those things on the already existing machine(s).
> >
> > Respectfully,
> >      R0b0t1
>
> I am in no great hurry to get things moving and don't mind being told
> "no," but at a certain point I feel like I will have to tell OSU that
> I couldn't figure out who controls their current donation.
>
> Respectfully,
>      R0b0t1
>
I have access to it (can spin up servers and whatnot), but it doesn't
sound like that's what you are looking for (needing a non-virtualized
system).  What specific features are you looking for?

Are you looking for rack space to put a donated IBM system in or what?
I'm not certian what you are looking for.

I'm on irc (as prometheanfire) if you want to talk.

--
Matthew Thode (prometheanfire)

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Re: PowerPC Resources at OSU

Robin H. Johnson-2
In reply to this post by R0b0t1
(Snip entire request explanation)

Have you seen this page on this wiki?
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Infrastructure/Developer_Machines

Did you reach out to anybody there for access?

I do know that vapier hasn't been responding to emails, and I've granted
some accounts to hake.hppa instead, since I do have root there. I can
grant accounts on guppy as well if needed, but Infra does not generally
have access to the machines (this has been a problem in the past for
fixing issues with the machines hosted at OSUOSL).

--
Robin Hugh Johnson
Gentoo Linux: Dev, Infra Lead, Foundation Asst. Treasurer
E-Mail   : [hidden email]
GnuPG FP : 11ACBA4F 4778E3F6 E4EDF38E B27B944E 34884E85
GnuPG FP : 7D0B3CEB E9B85B1F 825BCECF EE05E6F6 A48F6136

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Re: PowerPC Resources at OSU

James Le Cuirot
In reply to this post by R0b0t1
On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 23:29:10 -0500
R0b0t1 <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 1) May I have access to a/the POWER server, or some other suitable
> POWER resource? If not,
> 2) is anyone available to verify that I am associated with the project
> or that I will use the resources for project related work?
>
> My intent is to experiment with the PowerPC architecture, specifically
> features found on newer POWER processors and servers. It is unlikely I
> will ever get to do this on my own as the machines run $10k-$30k. I
> requested services from OSU because GCC was not able to accommodate my
> request for hypervisor access on their system.
>
> However, having finally found the resources I've been looking for this
> whole time, it looks like OSU's nodes are virtualized and won't be
> able to do exactly what I want anyway (i.e. the GCC sysadmin was
> misinformed), so I may have accidentally wasted people's time and
> potentially tarnished Gentoo's reputation. I will make amends as best
> I can.
As of a few months ago, we have two POWER8 guests, one big endian
(timberdoodle) and one little endian (bogsucker). We would just have
one but you can't mix big and little endian on the same system.

After the old POWER7 timberdoodle died, I was responsible for creating
these new instances with some help from prometheanfire. Replacing
CentOS systems that had tied up all the storage from the other side of
the world with no direct raw access was an interesting challenge!

I didn't intend to manage the systems long term though as I only use
them for building and testing Java stuff. I consider prometheanfire,
blueness, and vapier to be in charge though you may struggle getting
hold of the latter two.

We generally only give access to devs but I am aware of one exception
we made for gnu_andrew, who works for Red Hat and provides our icedtea
ebuilds. Unfortunately I've only seen you on this list but hopefully
someone can vouch for you. I don't know whether these guests will be
suitable for your needs though.

--
James Le Cuirot (chewi)
Gentoo Linux Developer

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Re: PowerPC Resources at OSU

Anthony G. Basile
On 9/12/17 4:30 PM, James Le Cuirot wrote:

> On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 23:29:10 -0500
> R0b0t1 <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> 1) May I have access to a/the POWER server, or some other suitable
>> POWER resource? If not,
>> 2) is anyone available to verify that I am associated with the project
>> or that I will use the resources for project related work?
>>
>> My intent is to experiment with the PowerPC architecture, specifically
>> features found on newer POWER processors and servers. It is unlikely I
>> will ever get to do this on my own as the machines run $10k-$30k. I
>> requested services from OSU because GCC was not able to accommodate my
>> request for hypervisor access on their system.
>>
>> However, having finally found the resources I've been looking for this
>> whole time, it looks like OSU's nodes are virtualized and won't be
>> able to do exactly what I want anyway (i.e. the GCC sysadmin was
>> misinformed), so I may have accidentally wasted people's time and
>> potentially tarnished Gentoo's reputation. I will make amends as best
>> I can.
>
> As of a few months ago, we have two POWER8 guests, one big endian
> (timberdoodle) and one little endian (bogsucker). We would just have
> one but you can't mix big and little endian on the same system.
>
> After the old POWER7 timberdoodle died, I was responsible for creating
> these new instances with some help from prometheanfire. Replacing
> CentOS systems that had tied up all the storage from the other side of
> the world with no direct raw access was an interesting challenge!
>
> I didn't intend to manage the systems long term though as I only use
> them for building and testing Java stuff. I consider prometheanfire,
> blueness, and vapier to be in charge though you may struggle getting
> hold of the latter two.
>
> We generally only give access to devs but I am aware of one exception
> we made for gnu_andrew, who works for Red Hat and provides our icedtea
> ebuilds. Unfortunately I've only seen you on this list but hopefully
> someone can vouch for you. I don't know whether these guests will be
> suitable for your needs though.
>

I've been using timberdoodle, but not bogsucker.  I haven't been
following this thread, but if its a question of maintaining those
machines, I can help out with that.

--
Anthony G. Basile, Ph.D.
Gentoo Linux Developer [Hardened]
E-Mail    : [hidden email]
GnuPG FP  : 1FED FAD9 D82C 52A5 3BAB  DC79 9384 FA6E F52D 4BBA
GnuPG ID  : F52D4BBA

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Re: PowerPC Resources at OSU

R0b0t1
Hello,

There are multiple replies below.

On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 11:43 AM, Matthew Thode
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> I have access to it (can spin up servers and whatnot), but it doesn't
> sound like that's what you are looking for (needing a non-virtualized
> system).  What specific features are you looking for?
>
> Are you looking for rack space to put a donated IBM system in or what?
> I'm not certian what you are looking for.
>

My apologies, I tried to be comprehensive in my original post but it
may have come out confused. I felt as if I did something bad and was
trying to make sure I told someone right away, like my parents taught
me.

I am looking to verify that my request for shipping reimbursement
could not be made superfluous. It looks like physical access to a
system is necessary to continue doing most of the novel things I am
interested in.

Firstly I want to interact with the system firmware. This may only be
possible with POWER8 systems. With the failure of the TALOS
workstation crowdfunding effort it looks like I will not be able to do
this soon. I intend to see what I can do to reverse engineer the
motherboard firmware on a donated Power6+ system if/when I receive it.
Secondly I wish to instrument PowerKVM and the newer PowerPC
hypervisor functions, specifically related to processor power
management, processor configuration, and memory model. The user mode
SIMD/decimal128 instructions are also extremely interesting. Lastly I
would like to run a Tinderbox targeting ppc64(le) to try to follow up
on some build failures I've been having.

On the systems I have access to at the moment I have been caught up in
prefix/RAP failures while trying to set up a development environment
otherwise I would have started following up on my latter interests.

A shell account on a ppc64le machine running Gentoo would likely be
enough. It would save me a lot of time. Otherwise I can wait until I
receive a donated Power6+ machine, some way or another.

> I'm on irc (as prometheanfire) if you want to talk.
>

I will try to remember that, but unfortunately I have less time to be
on IRC now. Setting up a bouncer is on my list and I will get to it.


On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 1:37 PM, Robin H. Johnson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Have you seen this page on this wiki?
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Infrastructure/Developer_Machines
>
> Did you reach out to anybody there for access?
>

No sir, my apologies for my confusion. I am not very smart and it has
been hard to find information that might aid me in contributing to
Gentoo. Much to my dismay useful information is usually available. I
genuinely do not mean to ask useless questions.


On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 3:30 PM, James Le Cuirot <[hidden email]> wrote:

> As of a few months ago, we have two POWER8 guests, one big endian
> (timberdoodle) and one little endian (bogsucker). We would just have
> one but you can't mix big and little endian on the same system.
>
> After the old POWER7 timberdoodle died, I was responsible for creating
> these new instances with some help from prometheanfire. Replacing
> CentOS systems that had tied up all the storage from the other side of
> the world with no direct raw access was an interesting challenge!
>
> I didn't intend to manage the systems long term though as I only use
> them for building and testing Java stuff. I consider prometheanfire,
> blueness, and vapier to be in charge though you may struggle getting
> hold of the latter two.
>
> We generally only give access to devs but I am aware of one exception
> we made for gnu_andrew, who works for Red Hat and provides our icedtea
> ebuilds. Unfortunately I've only seen you on this list but hopefully
> someone can vouch for you. I don't know whether these guests will be
> suitable for your needs though.
>

I understand. Requesting resources on behalf of Gentoo was a line I
was not willing to cross myself. It seems I misunderstood what
desultory told me to do.

The best I can offer is an explanation for what I wish to do and how
it may end up impacting Gentoo in a positive way. Already my "work"
(attempting to run bootstrap-rap.sh) on GCC112, GCC's ppc64le Linux
system, has led to a number of bugs for the prefix and RAP projects.
If I had use of a Gentoo ppc64le system I would likely be able to
increase the stability of those architectures as I attempt to do
normal things. This is the basis I used to request shipping
reimbursement for a donated POWER6+ server.

The tracker has some bugs I have submitted and others I have commented
on (I would link to them but I haven't figured out how to find all
bugs by me, or all bugs that I have commented on). There are people
who would recognize my name but as I said before, now a line has been
crossed. I do not want to make anyone feel like I am cornering them.


Respectfully,
     R0b0t1