locale no longer recognised by Plasma and KDE apps?

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locale no longer recognised by Plasma and KDE apps?

Mick-10
Another little problem I came across with Plasma is that neither the keyboard,
nor the spell checking respects the locale, L10N, or anything else I have set
up.  systemsettings5 shows en-GB as the selected language and keyboard, but (I
think) a US keyboard layout and spell checking language is used instead.

Is this another systemd-R-us imposition, or is there a way I can set it up so
that Plasma & friends respect the default environment settings?

$ env | grep LANG
LANG=en_GB.UTF8
--
Regards,
Mick

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Re: locale no longer recognised by Plasma and KDE apps?

Peter Humphrey-3
On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 18:07:20 BST Mick wrote:
> Another little problem I came across with Plasma is that neither the
> keyboard, nor the spell checking respects the locale, L10N, or anything
> else I have set up.  systemsettings5 shows en-GB as the selected language
> and keyboard, but (I think) a US keyboard layout and spell checking
> language is used instead.

In what applications, Mick?

> Is this another systemd-R-us imposition, or is there a way I can set it up
> so that Plasma & friends respect the default environment settings?
>
> $ env | grep LANG
> LANG=en_GB.UTF8

I have en_GB set up and apparently working. I haven't done anything in
particular to the environment, just used applications' setup.

--
Regards,
Peter.


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Re: locale no longer recognised by Plasma and KDE apps?

Mick-10
On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 23:16:07 BST Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 18:07:20 BST Mick wrote:
> > Another little problem I came across with Plasma is that neither the
> > keyboard, nor the spell checking respects the locale, L10N, or anything
> > else I have set up.  systemsettings5 shows en-GB as the selected language
> > and keyboard, but (I think) a US keyboard layout and spell checking
> > language is used instead.
>
> In what applications, Mick?

Kate, Kmail, Firefox, et al.


> > Is this another systemd-R-us imposition, or is there a way I can set it up
> > so that Plasma & friends respect the default environment settings?
> >
> > $ env | grep LANG
> > LANG=en_GB.UTF8
>
> I have en_GB set up and apparently working. I haven't done anything in
> particular to the environment, just used applications' setup.

The keyboard layout works fine on console and other desktop environments.  It
is just Plasma I noticed is not collaborating.

Are you also running Plasma with openrc?
--
Regards,
Mick

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Re: locale no longer recognised by Plasma and KDE apps?

Peter Humphrey-3
On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 23:38:48 BST Mick wrote:

> On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 23:16:07 BST Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 18:07:20 BST Mick wrote:
> > > Another little problem I came across with Plasma is that neither the
> > > keyboard, nor the spell checking respects the locale, L10N, or
> > > anything else I have set up.  systemsettings5 shows en-GB as the
> > > selected language and keyboard, but (I think) a US keyboard layout and
> > > spell checking language is used instead.
> >
> > In what applications, Mick?
>
> Kate, Kmail, Firefox, et al.

In KMail, you need to set the language in your Identity, under Advanced.
KMail ignores the system-wide setting, and so does KWrite. In Firefox, as
far as I can remember the language was already right. I don't use Kate; in
fact, it seems not to be present. Libre Office seems to associate its
language with each document.

> > > Is this another systemd-R-us imposition, or is there a way I can set
> > > it up so that Plasma & friends respect the default environment
> > > settings?
> > >
> > > $ env | grep LANG
> > > LANG=en_GB.UTF8
> >
> > I have en_GB set up and apparently working. I haven't done anything in
> > particular to the environment, just used applications' setup.
>
> The keyboard layout works fine on console and other desktop environments.
> It is just Plasma I noticed is not collaborating.
>
> Are you also running Plasma with openrc?

Yes. Here are my language settings:

$ env | grep LANG
LANG=en_GB.UTF-8
LANGUAGE=en_GB

$ grep GB /etc/portage/make.conf
LANG="en_GB.UTF-8"
LANGUAGE="en_GB.UTF-8"
L10N="en-GB en"
LINGUAS="en_GB en"

You haven't been caught by that L10N trap, have you? The hyphen where you
would expect an underscore?

--
Regards,
Peter.


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Re: locale no longer recognised by Plasma and KDE apps?

Mick-10
In reply to this post by Mick-10
On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 23:38:48 BST Mick wrote:

> On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 23:16:07 BST Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 18:07:20 BST Mick wrote:
> > > Another little problem I came across with Plasma is that neither the
> > > keyboard, nor the spell checking respects the locale, L10N, or anything
> > > else I have set up.  systemsettings5 shows en-GB as the selected
> > > language
> > > and keyboard, but (I think) a US keyboard layout and spell checking
> > > language is used instead.
> >
> > In what applications, Mick?
>
> Kate, Kmail, Firefox, et al.
>
> > > Is this another systemd-R-us imposition, or is there a way I can set it
> > > up
> > > so that Plasma & friends respect the default environment settings?
> > >
> > > $ env | grep LANG
> > > LANG=en_GB.UTF8
> >
> > I have en_GB set up and apparently working. I haven't done anything in
> > particular to the environment, just used applications' setup.
>
> The keyboard layout works fine on console and other desktop environments.
> It is just Plasma I noticed is not collaborating.
>
> Are you also running Plasma with openrc?
Another complain surfaced:  apparently users cannot edit their own user icon,
the one that appears to the left of the name of the user in the start up
panel.  systemsettings5 only allows one to add a user.  Existing user accounts
are not listed.

--
Regards,
Mick

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Re: locale no longer recognised by Plasma and KDE apps?

Mick-10
In reply to this post by Peter Humphrey-3
On Thursday, 14 September 2017 09:03:21 BST Peter Humphrey wrote:

> On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 23:38:48 BST Mick wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 23:16:07 BST Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, 13 September 2017 18:07:20 BST Mick wrote:
> > > > Another little problem I came across with Plasma is that neither the
> > > > keyboard, nor the spell checking respects the locale, L10N, or
> > > > anything else I have set up.  systemsettings5 shows en-GB as the
> > > > selected language and keyboard, but (I think) a US keyboard layout and
> > > > spell checking language is used instead.
> > >
> > > In what applications, Mick?
> >
> > Kate, Kmail, Firefox, et al.
>
> In KMail, you need to set the language in your Identity, under Advanced.
> KMail ignores the system-wide setting, and so does KWrite.
Aha!  I had forgotten about this setting in Kmail, but unfortunately it makes
no difference.  The setting in question seems to be desktop wide and affects
all applications within Plasma.  :-(


> In Firefox, as
> far as I can remember the language was already right. I don't use Kate; in
> fact, it seems not to be present. Libre Office seems to associate its
> language with each document.
>
> > > > Is this another systemd-R-us imposition, or is there a way I can set
> > > > it up so that Plasma & friends respect the default environment
> > > > settings?
> > > >
> > > > $ env | grep LANG
> > > > LANG=en_GB.UTF8
> > >
> > > I have en_GB set up and apparently working. I haven't done anything in
> > > particular to the environment, just used applications' setup.
> >
> > The keyboard layout works fine on console and other desktop environments.
> > It is just Plasma I noticed is not collaborating.
> >
> > Are you also running Plasma with openrc?
>
> Yes. Here are my language settings:
>
> $ env | grep LANG
> LANG=en_GB.UTF-8
> LANGUAGE=en_GB
>
> $ grep GB /etc/portage/make.conf
> LANG="en_GB.UTF-8"
> LANGUAGE="en_GB.UTF-8"
> L10N="en-GB en"
> LINGUAS="en_GB en"
>
> You haven't been caught by that L10N trap, have you? The hyphen where you
> would expect an underscore?
Hmm ... I have the following:

$ env | grep LANG
LANG=en_GB.UTF-8

$ grep GB /etc/portage/make.conf
LINGUAS="en_GB en"
L10N="en-GB"

I wasn't aware there is a LANGUAGE variable.  I couldn't find it here:

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Localization/Guide

Is this is a new setting?  What applications use this?
--
Regards,
Mick

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Re: locale no longer recognised by Plasma and KDE apps?

Peter Humphrey-3
On Thursday, 14 September 2017 09:57:17 BST Mick wrote:

> Hmm ... I have the following:
>
> $ env | grep LANG
> LANG=en_GB.UTF-8
>
> $ grep GB /etc/portage/make.conf
> LINGUAS="en_GB en"
> L10N="en-GB"
>
> I wasn't aware there is a LANGUAGE variable.  I couldn't find it here:
>
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Localization/Guide
>
> Is this is a new setting?  What applications use this?

You have me there. No, it's very far from new; it's just survived in
make.conf by default. Maybe it doesn't exist any more. I'll try removing it
and see what happens.

--
Regards,
Peter.


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Re: locale no longer recognised by Plasma and KDE apps?

Peter Humphrey-3
In reply to this post by Mick-10
On Thursday, 14 September 2017 09:25:14 BST Mick wrote:

> Another complain surfaced:  apparently users cannot edit their own user
> icon, the one that appears to the left of the name of the user in the
> start up panel.  systemsettings5 only allows one to add a user.  Existing
> user accounts are not listed.

Now that's definitely wrong. I have no users other than myself, but I do
appear in the user manager. I do have to give the root password to save any
changes I make, though, which is only natural.

--
Regards,
Peter.


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Re: locale no longer recognised by Plasma and KDE apps?

Mick-10
On Thursday, 14 September 2017 11:11:01 BST Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Thursday, 14 September 2017 09:25:14 BST Mick wrote:
> > Another complain surfaced:  apparently users cannot edit their own user
> > icon, the one that appears to the left of the name of the user in the
> > start up panel.  systemsettings5 only allows one to add a user.  Existing
> > user accounts are not listed.
>
> Now that's definitely wrong. I have no users other than myself, but I do
> appear in the user manager. I do have to give the root password to save any
> changes I make, though, which is only natural.

This particular box has two users.  I logged in with my user (I belong to the
wheel group) and still no existing users were listed.  All I could do is add a
new user, which is not something I would like to do.

Can you please confirm if you are running systemd with your Plasma
installation?

--
Regards,
Mick

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Re: locale no longer recognised by Plasma and KDE apps?

Peter Humphrey-3
On Thursday, 14 September 2017 11:33:50 BST Mick wrote:

> On Thursday, 14 September 2017 11:11:01 BST Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > On Thursday, 14 September 2017 09:25:14 BST Mick wrote:
> > > Another complain surfaced:  apparently users cannot edit their own
> > > user
> > > icon, the one that appears to the left of the name of the user in the
> > > start up panel.  systemsettings5 only allows one to add a user.
> > > Existing
> > > user accounts are not listed.
> >
> > Now that's definitely wrong. I have no users other than myself, but I do
> > appear in the user manager. I do have to give the root password to save
> > any changes I make, though, which is only natural.
>
> This particular box has two users.  I logged in with my user (I belong to
> the wheel group) and still no existing users were listed.  All I could do
> is add a new user, which is not something I would like to do.
>
> Can you please confirm if you are running systemd with your Plasma
> installation?

No, just good old openrc.

--
Regards,
Peter.


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Re: locale no longer recognised by Plasma and KDE apps?

Frank Steinmetzger
On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 02:17:07PM +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote:

> > > > systemsettings5 only allows one to add a user. Existing user
> > > > accounts are not listed.
> > >
> > > Now that's definitely wrong. I have no users other than myself, but I do
> > > appear in the user manager. I do have to give the root password to save
> > > any changes I make, though, which is only natural.
> >
> > […] All I could do is add a new user, which is not something I would
> > like to do.
> >
> > Can you please confirm if you are running systemd with your Plasma
> > installation?
>
> No, just good old openrc.
I’m on openrc, too, and my user details dialog only shows “New user”.
Neither my own account nor the guest account that I added a few days back
is visible. Clicking on the [+] at the bottom has no effect at all.

Starting system settings from the terminal prints one line:
log_user_manager: "org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown" "The name
org.freedesktop.login1 was not provided by any .service files"
Not sure though whether that’s related.
--
Gruß | Greetings | Qapla’
Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network.

“Wow!  That lightning sounded clo... zzzit!” -- NO CARRIER --

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Re: locale no longer recognised by Plasma and KDE apps?

Peter Humphrey-3
On Saturday, 16 September 2017 08:24:33 BST Frank Steinmetzger wrote:

> I’m on openrc, too, and my user details dialog only shows “New user”.
> Neither my own account nor the guest account that I added a few days back
> is visible. Clicking on the [+] at the bottom has no effect at all.
>
> Starting system settings from the terminal prints one line:
> log_user_manager: "org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown" "The name
> org.freedesktop.login1 was not provided by any .service files"
> Not sure though whether that’s related.

It certainly sounds likely. Do you start dbus in the default run level?

# rc-update -s -v | grep dbus
                 dbus |      default                              

Aren't *.service files part of systemd? I have none of them here. I wonder
why your system is looking for one.

--
Regards,
Peter.


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Re: locale no longer recognised by Plasma and KDE apps?

Mick-10
On Saturday, 16 September 2017 08:56:34 BST Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Saturday, 16 September 2017 08:24:33 BST Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
> > I’m on openrc, too, and my user details dialog only shows “New user”.
> > Neither my own account nor the guest account that I added a few days back
> > is visible. Clicking on the [+] at the bottom has no effect at all.
> >
> > Starting system settings from the terminal prints one line:
> > log_user_manager: "org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown" "The name
> > org.freedesktop.login1 was not provided by any .service files"
> > Not sure though whether that’s related.

I am not getting any of this in konsole.  systemsettings5 starts without any
funfair.


> It certainly sounds likely. Do you start dbus in the default run level?
>
> # rc-update -s -v | grep dbus
>                  dbus |      default
>
> Aren't *.service files part of systemd? I have none of them here. I wonder
> why your system is looking for one.

Thanks for this Peter, I just discovered on this PC I had not added dbus in
the default run level.  Interestingly, dbus *is* running all the same:

# rc-update -s -v | grep dbus
                 dbus |

# ps axf | grep dbus
 1701 ?        Ss     0:00 /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --system
 2763 ?        S      0:00 dbus-launch --autolaunch
bea9f7f8958e4471f4c1d45f549ae52c --binary-syntax --close-stderr
 2764 ?        Ss     0:00 /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --fork --print-pid 5 --print-
address 7 --session
 3013 ?        S      0:00 /usr/bin/dbus-launch --sh-syntax --exit-with-
session
 3014 ?        Ss     0:01 /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --fork --print-pid 5 --print-
address 15 --session
 3849 pts/2    S+     0:00              \_ grep --colour=auto dbus

So, something must be starting it - probably kdestart/plasmastart or whatever
sddm is running to start the plasma session.
--
Regards,
Mick

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Re: locale no longer recognised by Plasma and KDE apps?

Marc Joliet
In reply to this post by Mick-10
Am Mittwoch, 13. September 2017, 19:07:20 CEST schrieb Mick:
> Another little problem I came across with Plasma is that neither the
> keyboard, nor the spell checking respects the locale, L10N, or anything
> else I have set up.  systemsettings5 shows en-GB as the selected language
> and keyboard, but (I think) a US keyboard layout and spell checking
> language is used instead.

I have a slightly different problem with recent Plasma versions, but I wonder
if they're related:

Changing the spell checking language doesn't do anything, it sticks to
whatever was selected to begin with, even though it *looks* like I changed the
selection.  For example, if German is the initial selection, after changing to
any English variant English-only words are still highlighted as incorrect.

I did just test changing the keyboard, though, and that still works (via the
default Ctrl-Alt-k keybinding).

> Is this another systemd-R-us imposition, or is there a way I can set it up
> so that Plasma & friends respect the default environment settings?

I don't understand why you would think that to be the case, systemd also just
uses (and controls, if you use localectl) the usual variables in /etc/
locale.conf.

> $ env | grep LANG
> LANG=en_GB.UTF8

For completeness, I've got:

% env | grep LANG
LANG=de_DE.utf8
LANGUAGE=de:en_GB

HTH
--
Marc Joliet
--
"People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we
don't" - Bjarne Stroustrup

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Re: locale no longer recognised by Plasma and KDE apps?

Daniel Frey-6
In reply to this post by Frank Steinmetzger
On 09/16/2017 12:24 AM, Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
>
> I’m on openrc, too, and my user details dialog only shows “New user”.
> Neither my own account nor the guest account that I added a few days back
> is visible. Clicking on the [+] at the bottom has no effect at all.
>

The machine I'm on right now is systemd, and I don't see a list of users
in the User Details part of the control panel either. Maybe it's just a
KDE thing?

Dan


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Re: locale no longer recognised by Plasma and KDE apps?

Mick-10
In reply to this post by Marc Joliet
On Saturday, 16 September 2017 13:27:18 BST Marc Joliet wrote:

> Am Mittwoch, 13. September 2017, 19:07:20 CEST schrieb Mick:
> > Another little problem I came across with Plasma is that neither the
> > keyboard, nor the spell checking respects the locale, L10N, or anything
> > else I have set up.  systemsettings5 shows en-GB as the selected language
> > and keyboard, but (I think) a US keyboard layout and spell checking
> > language is used instead.
>
> I have a slightly different problem with recent Plasma versions, but I
> wonder if they're related:
>
> Changing the spell checking language doesn't do anything, it sticks to
> whatever was selected to begin with, even though it *looks* like I changed
> the selection.  For example, if German is the initial selection, after
> changing to any English variant English-only words are still highlighted as
> incorrect.
>
> I did just test changing the keyboard, though, and that still works (via the
> default Ctrl-Alt-k keybinding).
Ahh!  This is interesting.  It only showed US keyboard being available.  So I
looked into systemsettings5 and I discovered only US keyboard was listed.  So,
I added the UK keyboard and this seems to have fixed the keyboard problem.  
Thanks for the hint.


> > Is this another systemd-R-us imposition, or is there a way I can set it up
> > so that Plasma & friends respect the default environment settings?
>
> I don't understand why you would think that to be the case, systemd also
> just uses (and controls, if you use localectl) the usual variables in /etc/
> locale.conf.
>
> > $ env | grep LANG
> > LANG=en_GB.UTF8
>
> For completeness, I've got:
>
> % env | grep LANG
> LANG=de_DE.utf8
> LANGUAGE=de:en_GB
>
> HTH
Where is the LANGUAGE variable expected/required?  I have not found it in the
documentation.

--
Regards,
Mick

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Re: locale no longer recognised by Plasma and KDE apps?

Peter Humphrey-3
On Saturday, 16 September 2017 16:00:43 BST Mick wrote:

> On Saturday, 16 September 2017 13:27:18 BST Marc Joliet wrote:
> > Am Mittwoch, 13. September 2017, 19:07:20 CEST schrieb Mick:
> > > Another little problem I came across with Plasma is that neither the
> > > keyboard, nor the spell checking respects the locale, L10N, or
> > > anything
> > > else I have set up.  systemsettings5 shows en-GB as the selected
> > > language
> > > and keyboard, but (I think) a US keyboard layout and spell checking
> > > language is used instead.
> >
> > I have a slightly different problem with recent Plasma versions, but I
> > wonder if they're related:
> >
> > Changing the spell checking language doesn't do anything, it sticks to
> > whatever was selected to begin with, even though it *looks* like I
> > changed the selection.  For example, if German is the initial
> > selection, after changing to any English variant English-only words are
> > still highlighted as incorrect.
> >
> > I did just test changing the keyboard, though, and that still works (via
> > the default Ctrl-Alt-k keybinding).
>
> Ahh!  This is interesting.  It only showed US keyboard being available.
> So I looked into systemsettings5 and I discovered only US keyboard was
> listed.  So, I added the UK keyboard and this seems to have fixed the
> keyboard problem. Thanks for the hint.

First thing I do when setting up a new KDE account - and I've done it so
many times in recent weeks that I lost count long ago. Keyboard, then
regional settings and only after that the visual aspects.

--
Regards,
Peter.


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Re: locale no longer recognised by Plasma and KDE apps?

Frank Steinmetzger
In reply to this post by Peter Humphrey-3
On Sat, Sep 16, 2017 at 08:56:34AM +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Saturday, 16 September 2017 08:24:33 BST Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
[…]
> > Starting system settings from the terminal prints one line:
> > log_user_manager: "org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown" "The name
> > org.freedesktop.login1 was not provided by any .service files"
> > Not sure though whether that’s related.
>
> It certainly sounds likely. Do you start dbus in the default run level?

Yes, I do. Perhaps I’ll set up a virtual machine with another distro and
compare it with that. I got some time on my hands over the next few days.

--
Gruß | Greetings | Qapla’
Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network.

It’s a pity that at the end of the money there’s so much month left.

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