status of http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org

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status of http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org

Curtis Napier
This has been cross posted to gentoo-dev and www-redesign.

http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org

After receiving a ton of very useful feedback from the developer
community I have updated the redesign. It should now be closer to 100%
accessible and it should (hopefully) render perfectly in all browsers
including text only browsers. It now passes XHTML and CSS validation tests.

I'm asking for everyone (developers and users alike) to please have a
look at the updated site and send any feedback you may have. I'm
especially interested in feedback from anyone who uses accessibilty
programs such as screen readers or if you are color blind or have any
other accessibilty issues.

Also, I only use GNU/Linux and I have only tested on the following browsers:

Mozilla-1.7
firefox-1.0
Opera-8.5
Internet Explorer-6 under CrossOver Office
Epiphany-1.8.2
Links-2.1 in text mode and graphics mode.

If you have access to a Macintosh, Windows, *BSD or any other OS or
Browser please test the site and include your OS and the browser version
in your feedback. I haven't received feedback from Konqueror or Safari
so feedback from those browsers would be much appreciated.

The only major outstanding issue is the contents of the menu in the grey
bar at the top and what should appear in the 5 purple boxes directly
under them. Currently I have that menu listed in order of what a new
Gentoo user would need to access first. If you have a better idea of
what should be included in this menu or think something important is
being left out please send that in your feedback as well.

Thanks in advance

Curtis
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Re: status of http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org

Aaron Kulbe
Curt,

I'm on a Mac Mini.  OS X 10.4, Safari v. 2.0.2

Looks good here.

Cheers,

Aaron Kulbe
a.k.a. SuperLag


On 11/21/05, Curtis Napier <[hidden email]> wrote:

> This has been cross posted to gentoo-dev and www-redesign.
>
> http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org
>
> After receiving a ton of very useful feedback from the developer
> community I have updated the redesign. It should now be closer to 100%
> accessible and it should (hopefully) render perfectly in all browsers
> including text only browsers. It now passes XHTML and CSS validation tests.
>
> I'm asking for everyone (developers and users alike) to please have a
> look at the updated site and send any feedback you may have. I'm
> especially interested in feedback from anyone who uses accessibilty
> programs such as screen readers or if you are color blind or have any
> other accessibilty issues.
>
> Also, I only use GNU/Linux and I have only tested on the following browsers:
>
> Mozilla-1.7
> firefox-1.0
> Opera-8.5
> Internet Explorer-6 under CrossOver Office
> Epiphany-1.8.2
> Links-2.1 in text mode and graphics mode.
>
> If you have access to a Macintosh, Windows, *BSD or any other OS or
> Browser please test the site and include your OS and the browser version
> in your feedback. I haven't received feedback from Konqueror or Safari
> so feedback from those browsers would be much appreciated.
>
> The only major outstanding issue is the contents of the menu in the grey
> bar at the top and what should appear in the 5 purple boxes directly
> under them. Currently I have that menu listed in order of what a new
> Gentoo user would need to access first. If you have a better idea of
> what should be included in this menu or think something important is
> being left out please send that in your feedback as well.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Curtis
> --
> [hidden email] mailing list
>
>

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Re: status of http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org

Lance Albertson
In reply to this post by Curtis Napier
Curtis Napier wrote:

> If you have access to a Macintosh, Windows, *BSD or any other OS or
> Browser please test the site and include your OS and the browser version
> in your feedback. I haven't received feedback from Konqueror or Safari
> so feedback from those browsers would be much appreciated.

Visually, the light grey color for the main text makes it a bit harder
to read the instructions. Any reason why you couldn't use black or a
darker color for the text? To me that text is the most important part of
our site and if we can't read that well, we have a problem :-).

That was the most glaring thing I could see first off. I'll have to dig
through the site more later.

Cheers-

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Re: status of http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org

Harald van Dijk
In reply to this post by Curtis Napier
On Mon, Nov 21, 2005 at 02:18:21AM -0500, Curtis Napier wrote:
> If you have access to a Macintosh, Windows, *BSD or any other OS or
> Browser please test the site and include your OS and the browser version
> in your feedback. I haven't received feedback from Konqueror or Safari
> so feedback from those browsers would be much appreciated.

It looks good in w3m, except for one minor thing: since background
images don't show, the top left link (a transparent image to show the
background) is simply a large empty block. Could you use a real image
for that, assuming that doesn't break anything in other browsers?

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Re: status of http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org

Bugzilla from jaervosz@gentoo.org
In reply to this post by Curtis Napier
On Monday 21 November 2005 08:18, Curtis Napier wrote:
> This has been cross posted to gentoo-dev and www-redesign.
> If you have access to a Macintosh, Windows, *BSD or any other OS or
> Browser please test the site and include your OS and the browser version
> in your feedback. I haven't received feedback from Konqueror or Safari
> so feedback from those browsers would be much appreciated.
Looking good with Konqueror 3.4.1

I think koon bugged you about a few security project issues.

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http://security.gentoo.org
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Re: status of http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org

Nattfodd
In reply to this post by Curtis Napier
Curtis Napier wrote:

> This has been cross posted to gentoo-dev and www-redesign.
>
> http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org
>
> After receiving a ton of very useful feedback from the developer
> community I have updated the redesign. It should now be closer to 100%
> accessible and it should (hopefully) render perfectly in all browsers
> including text only browsers. It now passes XHTML and CSS validation
> tests.
>
> I'm asking for everyone (developers and users alike) to please have a
> look at the updated site and send any feedback you may have. I'm
> especially interested in feedback from anyone who uses accessibilty
> programs such as screen readers or if you are color blind or have any
> other accessibilty issues.
>
> Also, I only use GNU/Linux and I have only tested on the following
> browsers:
>
> Mozilla-1.7
> firefox-1.0
> Opera-8.5
> Internet Explorer-6 under CrossOver Office
> Epiphany-1.8.2
> Links-2.1 in text mode and graphics mode.
>
> If you have access to a Macintosh, Windows, *BSD or any other OS or
> Browser please test the site and include your OS and the browser
> version in your feedback. I haven't received feedback from Konqueror
> or Safari so feedback from those browsers would be much appreciated.
>
> The only major outstanding issue is the contents of the menu in the
> grey bar at the top and what should appear in the 5 purple boxes
> directly under them. Currently I have that menu listed in order of
> what a new Gentoo user would need to access first. If you have a
> better idea of what should be included in this menu or think something
> important is being left out please send that in your feedback as well.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Curtis

Hi,
it shouldn't be a big surprise, but it renders fine with both
firefox-1.5-rc1 (Deer Park) and lynx-2.8.5, on a gentoo/linux box.

Regards,
Alexandre
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Re: status of http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org

Duncan-42
In reply to this post by Curtis Napier
Curtis Napier posted <[hidden email]>, excerpted below,  on
Mon, 21 Nov 2005 02:18:21 -0500:

> http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org
>
> Also, I only use GNU/Linux and I have only tested on the following
> browsers:
>
> Mozilla-1.7
> firefox-1.0
> Opera-8.5
> Internet Explorer-6 under CrossOver Office
> Epiphany-1.8.2
> Links-2.1 in text mode and graphics mode.
>
> If you have access to a Macintosh, Windows, *BSD or any other OS or
> Browser please test the site and include your OS and the browser version
> in your feedback. I haven't received feedback from Konqueror or Safari
> so feedback from those browsers would be much appreciated.
>
> The only major outstanding issue is the contents of the menu in the grey
> bar at the top and what should appear in the 5 purple boxes directly
> under them. Currently I have that menu listed in order of what a new
> Gentoo user would need to access first. If you have a better idea of
> what should be included in this menu or think something important is
> being left out please send that in your feedback as well.

You mention links but not lynx.  I tried it in both lynx and links/text
mode. It's quite impressive in lynx, due to the colors, and decent in
links (but you knew that already).

The following is pointed out *NOT* claiming that I'm a web dev, or
could do any better (or even close to as good).  However, as a browser
user who has had to educate himself a bit due to author assumptions about
defaults that don't always hold. and because you /asked/.  =8^)

*  Set the base tag.  I sometimes save web pages for my own
use, and like them to work when I do. Adding a <base href= ...>
tag would be very useful, here. Without it, saving just the HTML to disk
breaks the page rather drastically, because it can't find the CSS and
images, as they are relative links.  Good to have the links relative; good
the formatting is separated from the content to the degree the page breaks
without the CSS; bad that there's no base href tag to "unbreak" things
when the html page gets viewed on its own.


*  (This may be an inheritance issue.  I didn't check full inheritance
but I'm using Konqueror, so if it's an inheritance bug, that's what
it's in.)  You don't set background color for ads/ads-main or
jumppad-main. What happens if a user's preferences are dark backgrounds,
light text?

- The ad links don't show up, for one thing, because they are set dark and
become almost invisible on a dark background.  (Browser's link color
settings, a foreground item, overruled, without overruling bg prefs, not
good when they happen to be almost the same color!

- The individual jumppads have bg set (good), so the text shows up there,
but they appear contrasted against a dark background, as jumppad-main
doesn't set bg, which doesn't look so good.

- The content column, with bg set to white, contrasts very sharply with
the ad column.

- Generally useful rule -- if you muck about with changing some
colors from the user's/browser's defaults, change both background and
foreground, and consider what the effect will be with both light and dark
defaults, for anything you do /not/ specifically set.  Try viewing the
page in a browser set to light text on dark background, and dark text on
light background, as the defaults, to be sure.  (It's amazing the number
of sites that get this wrong, setting one but not the other on some or all
elemets, or fail to set bgcolor when a bgimage is set, for those who don't
surf with images turned on.)


*  Consider the effects of different user/browser font sizes.  Here, the
white text in the purple boxes (Why Gentoo section) ran into the gray
bottom border at my default text size.  Scrolling text size up, to where
it'd be if I were sight impaired, ran the white text from that area into
the white background area below.  (Scrolling text size down, it fit into
the boxes nicely and was indeed very attractive, so I see the effect you
are going for.)  Perhaps make those images, so the font size is constant
with reference to the boxes intended to contain it?  (You'd then set alt
tags for those not viewing images, of course.)


*  I like the jumppad images!  That's quite impressive and professional
looking, something I'd be proud to show others who know I run Gentoo!


*  Consider making the "Why Choose Gentoo?" section question visible
(something other than display=none). IMO, that would add meaning to the
features bullet-pointed in the purple boxes.  Maybe make that a
purple-background header above that section?


*  Entirely personal preference:  I don't happen to like what I'd call
puke-yellow-green (#83b300), but that's just me.  I'd prefer either a
stronger yellow or a stronger green (or would choose a dark cyan, similar
to the background of the phparchitect ad, for the white backgrounded
stuff, and a lighter cyan similar to that of the sevenl ad, for the dark
backgrounded stuff).  Purple is cool, tho!  =8^)

--
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"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman in
http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2004/12/22/rms_interview.html


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Re: status of http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org

Harald van Dijk
In reply to this post by Curtis Napier
On Mon, Nov 21, 2005 at 02:18:21AM -0500, Curtis Napier wrote:
> If you have access to a Macintosh, Windows, *BSD or any other OS or
> Browser please test the site and include your OS and the browser version
> in your feedback. I haven't received feedback from Konqueror or Safari
> so feedback from those browsers would be much appreciated.

With IE 5 for Mac, the top bar looks messed up:
  http://dev.gentoo.org/~truedfx/ie5mac.png

I haven't looked for a way to get it displayed right yet; if I find
something before you do, I'll let you know :)

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Re: status of http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org

Thomas de Grenier de Latour
In reply to this post by Curtis Napier
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 02:18:21 -0500
Curtis Napier <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm asking for everyone (developers and users alike) to please
> have a look at the updated site and send any feedback you may
> have.

Firefox-1.0.7 here, on a 1024x768 screen, and i think there is too
much wasted space. Since i'm not new to Gentoo, when i go to the
front page it's either to follow link to the doc or to read news.
The former is fine, but the later is not (news are the last ~10% of
what i see):
http://tdegreni.free.fr/gentoo/redesign_gentoo_org.png

I'm not good at HTML things so i can't send a patch, but I think the
vertical size of the information boxes on top should be only what
is needed for the text to fit, and not the background image size
or whatever else it is at the moment. And also, there should be
much less white space before the real contents starts.  Modified in
Gimp, it would more looks like that:
http://tdegreni.free.fr/gentoo/redesign_gentoo_org_fixed.png

Oh, and also, i don't really like the "Get Gentoo and compile
software optimaly for your architecture" slogan. Not that it's
completly wrong, but my experience with new users on forums is that
those who came to Gentoo mainly for that reason are usualy
disapointed.  I would rather see something about system
customization in general (i mean, not only CFLAGS but also USE
flag et al., which is much more interresting).  Something like "Get
Gentoo and make your own « sur mesure » system.", but i don't know
how to translate "sur mesure" from french to english.

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Re: status of http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org

Herbert Fischer
In reply to this post by Curtis Napier
Good job!

Shows nice on Firefox 1.0.7, Opera 8.5 and Konqueror 3.4.1!

I don't know if you are accepting suggestions, but I have a few "usability" ones:

- The top blue bar(s) is too much big. In a 1024x768 screen it takes almost half the showing page. Maybe decreasing the size of the "second" bar (the one with detailed BG) and it's contents can be helpful. There are lots of empty spaces inside this bars.

- The bottom menus are very nice but I think they are in the wrong place. The natural human being will search for all the site menu items on the top or "first" page (without scrolling). The rule in this case is to put all menu items in one place, or, if this items need to be separated, so organize and group related items. "Docs" in the top then "documentation" right bellow and "Documentation" on the bottom again is a waist of space, don't you think?


That was just a few suggestions. Sorry for my "english" writing. It's not my native language.

Thanks!

Herbert
2005/11/21, Curtis Napier <[hidden email]>:
This has been cross posted to gentoo-dev and www-redesign.

http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org

After receiving a ton of very useful feedback from the developer
community I have updated the redesign. It should now be closer to 100%
accessible and it should (hopefully) render perfectly in all browsers
including text only browsers. It now passes XHTML and CSS validation tests.

I'm asking for everyone (developers and users alike) to please have a
look at the updated site and send any feedback you may have. I'm
especially interested in feedback from anyone who uses accessibilty
programs such as screen readers or if you are color blind or have any
other accessibilty issues.

Also, I only use GNU/Linux and I have only tested on the following browsers:

Mozilla-1.7
firefox-1.0
Opera-8.5
Internet Explorer-6 under CrossOver Office
Epiphany-1.8.2
Links-2.1 in text mode and graphics mode.

If you have access to a Macintosh, Windows, *BSD or any other OS or
Browser please test the site and include your OS and the browser version
in your feedback. I haven't received feedback from Konqueror or Safari
so feedback from those browsers would be much appreciated.

The only major outstanding issue is the contents of the menu in the grey
bar at the top and what should appear in the 5 purple boxes directly
under them. Currently I have that menu listed in order of what a new
Gentoo user would need to access first. If you have a better idea of
what should be included in this menu or think something important is
being left out please send that in your feedback as well.

Thanks in advance

Curtis
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Re[2]: status of http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org

Bugzilla from jakub@gentoo.org

21.11.2005, 13:23:29, Herbert G. Fischer wrote:

> Good job!
 
>  - The bottom menus are very nice but I think they are in the wrong place.
> The natural human being will search for all the site menu items on the top or
> "first" page (without scrolling). The rule in this case is to put all menu
> items in one place, or, if this items need to be separated, so organize and
> group related items. "Docs" in the top then "documentation" right bellow and
> "Documentation" on the bottom again is a waist of space, don't you think?
 
Well, I would like to see them on the left (and really could live without those
illustrative pics accompanying them, but that's just me. ;)


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 ... still no signature ;)

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Re: status of http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org

Philip Webb
In reply to this post by Thomas de Grenier de Latour
051121 Thomas de Grenier de Latour wrote:
> I would rather see something about system customization in general,
> not only CFLAGS but also USE flag et al, which is much more interresting.
> Something like "Get Gentoo and make your own « sur mesure » system",
> but i don't know how to translate "sur mesure" from french to english.

'custom-made' or perhaps 'home-brewed'.

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Re: status of http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org

Gim-2
In reply to this post by Thomas de Grenier de Latour
> Firefox-1.0.7 here, on a 1024x768 screen, and i think there is too
> much wasted space. Since i'm not new to Gentoo, when i go to the
> front page it's either to follow link to the doc or to read news.
> The former is fine, but the later is not (news are the last ~10% of
> what i see):
> http://tdegreni.free.fr/gentoo/redesign_gentoo_org.png

Seems like the amount of wasted space grows when fonts size is _reduced_.
I'm no sure why/how such a thing is possible, but for sure it's something
that has to be fixed in order to obtain suitable layouts for a wider set
of firefox settings.

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Re: status of http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org

achumakov
In reply to this post by Curtis Napier
Curtis Napier пишет:

> If you have access to a Macintosh, Windows, *BSD or any other OS or
> Browser please test the site and include your OS and the browser
> version in your feedback. I haven't received feedback from Konqueror
> or Safari so feedback from those browsers would be much appreciated.
>
> The only major outstanding issue is the contents of the menu in the
> grey bar at the top and what should appear in the 5 purple boxes
> directly under them. Currently I have that menu listed in order of
> what a new Gentoo user would need to access first. If you have a
> better idea of what should be included in this menu or think something
> important is being left out please send that in your feedback as well.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Curtis

Hi Curtis,

First of all, thank you for the impressive new design. I really like it!

Technically (@Windows XP SP2 RUS, 1024x768):
Firefox 1.0.7 Rus -- OK
Opera 8.5 Rus -- OK
MSIE 6 Rus -- OK

Some issues to discuss:
1. Why is the gentoo logo changed this way? From (my) designer's point
of view, either an infinity sign or Gentoo 'g' is redundant and
unnecessary.
2. The dark grey table borders at documentation view and print pages are
too 'rough' compared to rather light overall site design.
Could you change them to something more 'airy'?

3. It is, imho, great moment to implement some i18n together with site
redesign. Many of us, i18n teams, have to 'clone' and maintain extensive
community sites just to bypass artificial English-only w.g.o front page
limitation. I think, it is reducing the amount of international Gentoo
newbies. Did you consider to take part in the GLEP10 implementation?

WKR,
Alexey Chumakov
GDP Russian Internationalization Lead

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Re: status of http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org

Luis Francisco Araujo
In reply to this post by Lance Albertson
Lance Albertson wrote:

>Curtis Napier wrote:
>
>  
>
>>If you have access to a Macintosh, Windows, *BSD or any other OS or
>>Browser please test the site and include your OS and the browser version
>>in your feedback. I haven't received feedback from Konqueror or Safari
>>so feedback from those browsers would be much appreciated.
>>    
>>
>
>Visually, the light grey color for the main text makes it a bit harder
>to read the instructions. Any reason why you couldn't use black or a
>darker color for the text? To me that text is the most important part of
>our site and if we can't read that well, we have a problem :-).
>
>That was the most glaring thing I could see first off. I'll have to dig
>through the site more later.
>
>Cheers-
>
>  
>
Besides this suggestion, haven't you tried the light-purple/yellow
background
i talked to you about?
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Re: status of http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org

Diego Elio Pettenò-3
In reply to this post by Gim-2
On Monday 21 November 2005 14:24, Gim wrote:
> Seems like the amount of wasted space grows when fonts size is _reduced_.
> I'm no sure why/how such a thing is possible, but for sure it's something
> that has to be fixed in order to obtain suitable layouts for a wider set
> of firefox settings.
I think the problem is in the sponsors column on the right. The news at the
centre of the page are centred with the column, and as the column is higher
than the news, it's that to choose the size of the page itself.
When you reduce the fonts, the size of the images is still fixed, so the
height of the column changes of a little bit, while the news gets smaller
again.

--
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Gentoo/ALT lead, Gentoo/FreeBSD, Video, AMD64, Sound, PAM, KDE

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Re: status of http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org

Petteri Räty-2
In reply to this post by Lance Albertson
Lance Albertson wrote:

> Curtis Napier wrote:
>
>
>>If you have access to a Macintosh, Windows, *BSD or any other OS or
>>Browser please test the site and include your OS and the browser version
>>in your feedback. I haven't received feedback from Konqueror or Safari
>>so feedback from those browsers would be much appreciated.
>
>
> Visually, the light grey color for the main text makes it a bit harder
> to read the instructions. Any reason why you couldn't use black or a
> darker color for the text? To me that text is the most important part of
> our site and if we can't read that well, we have a problem :-).
>
I have the same consern. I use a TFT-display (Dell 2005FPW) that has a
quite bright back light which might be the cause of the light colors
being hard to read.

Regards,
Petteri

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Re: status of http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org

Aaron Kulbe
> I have the same consern. I use a TFT-display (Dell 2005FPW) that has a
> quite bright back light which might be the cause of the light colors
> being hard to read.

Petteri,

I have that same display.  I turn the brightness down to 40%, since
it's way too bright at the default 100%.

Cheers,

Aaron Kulbe
a.k.a. SuperLag

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Re: status of http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org

Marc Moreau
In reply to this post by Philip Webb
On Mon, 2005-11-21 at 07:49 -0500, Philip Webb wrote:
> 051121 Thomas de Grenier de Latour wrote:
> > I would rather see something about system customization in general,
> > not only CFLAGS but also USE flag et al, which is much more interresting.
> > Something like "Get Gentoo and make your own « sur mesure » system",
> > but i don't know how to translate "sur mesure" from french to english.
>
> 'custom-made' or perhaps 'home-brewed'.
>
'made-to-order'
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Re: status of http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org

Marc Moreau
In reply to this post by Curtis Napier
I don't know if the contents are supposed to be the 'live' website data,
but, after scrolling down to the nice link tables at the bottom,
clicking on GLEPs, the info is outdated. Only up to GLEP 38.

Don't know if that is what you are looking for?

Later Days
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Lares Moreau <[hidden email]>  | LRU: 400755 http://counter.li.org
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